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Skopjanec Click to EMail SkopjanecClick to check IP address of the poster 18-Feb-04, 07:07 PM (GMT)
"Tatkovino dobro utro!"
LAST EDITED ON 18-Feb-04 AT 07:20 PM (GMT)

18ti fevruari 2004

MACEDONIA'S STATE SYMBOLS
The working group of the Ministry of Justice stated that it works on preparing the text of the new law that will regulate the use of flags in Macedonia. In two months, the law, which is necessitated as an obligation by the Framework Agreement, should enter the government's ratifying procedure and afterwards should eneter a parliamentary procedure, confirmed for "Vreme", minister of justice Idxet Memeti.

The Government will decide in how many phases the law will be delivered. The Political parties of Albanians in Macedonia gave more versions for that how their identity should be expressed. The sssence of all of their proposals is to be able to put Albanian flag in/on public institutions in Macedonia or to change the Macedonian state symbols so they could express multiethnic character of the state.

Law experts warn that Albanian and other
communities in Macedonia on local level can express their identity with their own ethnic symbols because the usage of a flag or of another symbol of a foreign country is exterritorial. While we wait for carrying out of part of Framework Agreement which prescribes usage of symbols of communities between coalition partners in power, additional consultations are taking palce about how the usage of such symbols will be prescribed, but nothing concrete has been agreed yet claim sources at the ruling SDSM and DUI.
According to them, the law regulates conditions and criteria for usage of flags, precisely when, where and how can ethnic communities will use their flags, in parallel with the state flag.

"Delivery of the law for using symbols is obligation from Framework Agreement. Therefore we will wait, in agreement with coalition partners,
for the Government to give its proposal for this issue and we will support that solution", say representatives in DUI.

The newest proposal of PDP for delivery of law for flags for DUI is political marketing. According to this proposal, Albanians would use their national symbols before the state institutions on local and also on central level during state holidays. For this solution PDP calls upon Framework Agreement. With Framework Agreement, in article 7 of general principles, it is anticipated that "right next to symbols of Republic of Macedonia local authorities will be able to set a symbol which expresses the identity of the community which is majority in the municipality, with respect of international principles".

In the constitutional amendment No. 48 it is written:" members of communities have right and freedom to nurse their identity and characteristics of their community and to use symbols of community to which they belong".
From that aspect, experts warn that if we carefully read these provisions, it is clear that Albanian politicians interpret Framework
Agreement on twisted way. As it is known, municipalities can have their own symbols, so units of local self-government in which Albanian
population is majority can adopt symbols which would be closer to their identity. Still, those "municipal marks" can not be equal to ones of state of Albania. Actually, the usage of the Albanian flag in the north-western part of Macedonia is problem which drags with years, and culminated during conflict and after it. In that region Macedonian flag was practically was not at all used, while Albanian flag is posted everywhere.

DUI, as newly formed party with an alleged civil orientation, promised to start using the Macedonian flag as well, but so far it did not happen. Well-known are the events in 1997 when mayors of Gostivar and Tetovo, Rufi Osmani
and Ajladin Demiri were sentenced to prison because they refused to remove Albanian flags from objects of local self-government. For
Albanians in Macedonia, the MAcedonian national anthem is also unacceptable, because they evaluate that it should also have elements of Albanian history.


ALBANIAN PARTIES REQUEST "BILINGUAL SKOPJE"
DUI will at some of its forthcoming meetings with the coalition partners SDSM and LDP request the Albanian language to be an official language in Skopje. DUI will request the usage of languages in Skopje to be regulated with special law, when at same time a package of "laws for decentralization" are defined, stated for "Vreme" Vice-Prime Minister Musa Dxaferi. Dxaferi also stated that such request has basis in the Constitution.

RELATIVES OF THE MISSING PERSONS STILL WITHOUT ANSWER ABOUT THEIR WHEREABOUTS
Relatives of kidnapped persons during 2001 war yesterday met with teh Macedonian leadership in Cabinet of President Trajkovski. As MTV reports, families left the meeting very quickly having realized that they are manipulated one moe time and are wasting their time. They are
especially revolted that leader of DUI, Ali Ahmeti did not participate in the meeting, although his presence was announced. Families of the missing and kidnapped persons say that they were expecting to get answers from Ahmeti for the destiny of their loved ones. In his stead, Hazbi Lika participated but dod not provide any answers.

The families announced yesterday that besides with President Trajkovski in the future they will not accept contact with anybody else until Ahmeti comes with concrete data for what happened with their relatives. Yesterday, in the
cabinet of President Trajkovski presence of family of 16-years old boy which was murdered in Tetovo while playing basketball, was mentioned. As MTV reports, relatives of murdered boy could only conclude that after 16 months of murder and plunder, the murderers are not placed behind bars.


MOI DENIES THERE ARE UCK COMMANDERS IN TETOVO REGION, CLAIMS RULE OF LAW FUNCTIONS
The Spokeswoman of Ministry of Interior (MOI), Mirjana Kontevska, yesterday denied the claims by leader of VMRO DPMNE, Nikola Gruevski, that rule of law does not function in Tetovo, and that the city is left to various commanders and terrorist groups. The Ministry of Defense categorically rejected the information brought out by Gruevski that Ministry of Defense and DUI agreed military barracks in Tetovo to be given to Tetovo
university. As "Utrinski Vesnik" writes, MOI and Ministry of Defense yesterday announced that at the moment they have complete control over territory of Republic of Macedonia and they constantly patrol in all former crisis regions.

Hisni Shakjiri from DUI also stated that DUI does not have any information that military formations exist in Tetovo region. According to Shakjiri,
statement of Gruevski does not correspond with reality brought about by the war in Macedonia ended in 2001.

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 Table of contents

www.thetrumpet.com, Skopjanec, 19-Feb-04, (1)
Gerald Flurry religiozen lazgo, Visar, 19-Feb-04, (2)
Tocno li e kazanoto za UCK?, Skopjanec, 19-Feb-04, (3)
odgovor, Visar, 19-Feb-04, (4)
Интересно..., Karabdalica, 19-Feb-04, (5)
"komandante" neli si makedonec, pragmatichar, 19-Feb-04, (6)
Posleden pat, Visar, 19-Feb-04, (7)
RE: Posleden pat, stoper, 19-Feb-04, (8)
RE: Posleden pat, Visar, 19-Feb-04, (9)
RE: Posleden pat, stoper, 19-Feb-04, (10)
po milioniti pat, pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (13)
RE: Posleden pat, Visar, 20-Feb-04, (14)
RE: Posleden pat, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (19)
istrazuvanja, Visar, 20-Feb-04, (21)
RE: istrazuvanja, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (31)
RE: istrazuvanja, Visar, 20-Feb-04, (33)
RE: istrazuvanja, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (35)
objasnuvanje, Visar, 20-Feb-04, (37)
RE: Posleden pat, pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (22)
RE: Posleden pat, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (27)
!, pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (29)
RE: !, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (34)
Da rezimiram, Visar, 20-Feb-04, (36)
RE: Da rezimiram, stoper, 20-Feb-04, (38)
Баталете го Прагматичар,продолжете ..., Karabdalica, 20-Feb-04, (11)
RE: Баталете го Прагматичар,продолж..., pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (12)
Браво !, Karabdalica, 20-Feb-04, (15)
za "komandant" abdalkarica, pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (16)
Браво,браво !, Karabdalica, 20-Feb-04, (17)
RE: i pak za Abdal-karica, Arber, 20-Feb-04, (30)
za Arber, pragmatichar, 20-Feb-04, (32)
RE: Баталете го Прагматичар,продолж..., Silvana, 23-Feb-04, (39)
Pragmaticar samo napred!, Skopjanec, 24-Feb-04, (40)
Samo da do-posocam..., Skopjanec, 24-Feb-04, (41)
RE: Pragmaticar samo napred!, Silvana, 24-Feb-04, (42)
Skopljanac samo napred !!, pragmatichar, 25-Feb-04, (43)
RE: Silvana samo napred!, Urednikot, 25-Feb-04, (44)

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Skopjanec Click to EMail SkopjanecClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 00:45 AM (GMT)
1. "www.thetrumpet.com"
THE RAISING BEAST
By Gerald Flurry


Chapter Two: How German Fascism Conquered Kosovo


The Serbs fought on our side in two world wars, and Germany fought against us in both of those wars. How strange to see that alliance reversed today.

We have failed to learn from this history, and we are going to pay a terrifying price!

The simple truth is, Serbia is no threat to Europe or America. But Germany has routinely been a dangerous threat to Europe and the world! And whether we realize it or not, they still are today-far more so than in the past.

The only real winners in 1999's war in Yugoslavia were Germany and the Vatican. Time will show that America and Britain were the great losers. The Kosovo conflict made them weaker as Germany grew in power.

It has often been said that truth is the first casualty of war. That probably has never been more true than in that war.

Germany Backs Albania

Yugoslavia lost the states of Croatia and Slovenia because of Germany. In the last chapter I showed how Germany recognized these breakaway republics and then supported them with troops and armaments. America (and almost the whole world) strongly opposed Germany's undemocratic plans in the beginning. But the U.S. weakened and then even decided to support Germany in its war to control the Balkans! Europe and the United Nations meekly followed along.

Germany's approach to taking over Yugoslavia was anything but democratic. This was good old-fashioned German fascism, supported by America and Britain. It makes you wonder how deeply we love freedom.

Germany has the most destructive military history of any nation ever on Earth! But America has supported them as though they have been the peacekeepers of the world. It's as if the whole world has habitually learned to fear Germany-fearing to speak out against them.

After Croatia and Slovenia, the civil war spread into Bosnia-Herzegovina. The Serbs lost control of a large portion of this republic also.

Still the Germans were not satisfied. The Serbs saw Germany supporting a guerrilla army of Albanians. The guerrillas called themselves the Kosovo Liberation Army (kla)-though they were never freedom fighters. Many of the authorities likened them to the Mafia. Kosovo was comprised of 90 percent Albanians. These Kosovar Albanians, along with Albania and Germany, supported the guerrilla army against the Serbs.

"The German ambassador made evident the very good relations between the two countries and voiced the will of his government to consolidate and promote further these relations. He highlighted the efficiency of various projects of the German assistance in Albania and stressed that they will be expanded in the coming months.

"Albanian Foreign Minister Milo stressed that Germany is one of the most important countries in the foreign policy of Albania" (Albanian Telegraphic Agency, Aug. 6, 1997; emphasis mine throughout). Germany is probably the strongest foreign industrial power in Albania. So their ties are unusually close.

There was also direct support coming from Germany. There are 600,000 Albanians in Germany. Many of the kla guerrillas left their families behind in Germany to fight against the Serbs in a civil war that the German-supported Albanians started. Is that German democracy, or German fascism?

Germany also gave financial support to the kla. According to bbc News, "In addition to money sent home to relatives , Kosovo's internationally unrecognized government-in-exile has been collecting a tax of 3 percent of earnings. Its prime minister, Bujar Bukoshi, who is based in Germany, has repeatedly denied that the money is used to buy arms-he says that it's spent on running the health and education services" (Aug. 5, 1998). But did anybody believe that?

Kosovo's "internationally unrecognized government-in-exile" had a prime minister who was based in Germany and operated freely with the blessing (perhaps even the direction) of the German government! So Germany recognized Kosovo's government-in-exile when nobody else did. But the international community submissively followed Germany's lead.

The kla guerrillas didn't just happen. They were essentially raised up and directly supported by Germany-the powerhouse of Europe.

All of Germany's actions in this Yugoslav war have been blatant and brutal fascism. We can call it democratic if we choose to do so, but that doesn't make it true. This is still the country that started World Wars i and ii. And they have already started World War iii in an unofficial way! It is time that we came out of our dream and recognized this very dangerous reality. The spirit of war has been resurrected again in Germany. Now only superior will and military force can stop it.

How many nightmares must we experience before we wake up to what is happening in Germany?

Germany encouraged nato attacks with the strongest language. The German defense minister, Rudolf Scharping, said in a March 1999 television interview on zdf that "genocide is starting." His alarmist vocabulary caused many to think about genocide. It became common to hear that word being used in relation to Kosovo.

The Australian reported on April 1, 1999, "With thousands of refugees continuing to stream out of the war-torn province, German Defense Minister Rudolf Scharping claimed in Bonn last night that evidence had emerged of concentration camps being set up by Serb forces."

People watched television and saw the streams of Albanian refugees. Then they totally blamed the Serbs. Most knew very little about Kosovo, yet spoke of "genocide"-the deliberate and systematic destruction of a race. Then came talk about "concentration camps." Genocide and concentration camps-words introduced by the German defense minister.

We see today that most of those claims were built on a foundation of ignorance, deceit and lies.

It is true that after a powerful nato air attack, the Serbs responded violently to save what remained of their country. But there was little mentioned about refugees before the nato attacks. In fact, nato's initial purpose in the war was to protect the Kosovar people in their homeland. That purpose shamefully failed.

Why? Because that was not what Germany wanted! Now this province too dances to Germany's tune.

Is nato blameless?

Germany Pressured nato

Stratfor Systems issued this most alarming report in 1998: "Serbian Radio in Belgrade on September 22 broadcast a scathing commentary charging Germany with 'warmongering' and warning Europe against the alleged rebirth of German fascism" (Sept. 25, 1998).

Call the Serbs what you like, but that is exactly what happened in Yugoslavia! And German fascism is accelerating all over Europe. This is the deadly truth that Europe and the U.S. refuse to face!

The report continued, "More pointedly, Serbian Radio cited Germany's record in the two world wars, and charged that Germany harbors 'open ambition to become the master of Europe.' Questioning Europe's silence on Germany's behavior, commentator Milika Sundic said, 'It is difficult to comprehend and accept that Europe has become Germany's slave.' Sundic went on to claim that 'Germany contributed the most to the breakdown of the former Yugoslavia,' and that 'Serbia has known for some time that Germany was behind the terrorism in .'"

Who can present any evidence to refute these powerful words?

Was the German-supported kla a band of freedom fighters, or were they terrorists? Nato has had serious problems controlling them.

The truth is, they were German-supported terrorists-used to achieve Germany's fascist goals. The world quickly forgets the ugly truth about Germany's aims. But the sledgehammer of events will jar our memory as never before.

"The fact is that Germany one of the leading voices pushing for nato intervention in Kosovo. In a meeting of nato defense ministers in Portugal on September 24 <1998>, which resulted in a virtual ultimatum to Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic to cease the fighting in Kosovo or face nato air strikes, only Germany's Rьhe called for a firm deadline to be set for intervention. Rьhe said, 'We must move quickly to an ultimatum in the next 10 days or less .... We must do something for the people on the ground and not just issue one more resolution after another'" (ibid.). Was Germany's penchant for blitzkrieg warfare beginning to surface?

"Rьhe has argued against awaiting a mandate on the use of force against Serbia. Said Rьhe, 'Pictures of people camping out in the open ... are in themselves an ultimatum.' Moreover, and more to the point, Rьhe said, 'We must avoid to be dependent on a Russian veto.' He claimed that the current relationship between nato and Russia presumes that 'Russia has no veto whenever nato needs to act.' ...

"Germany is leading the campaign for a quick and, if necessary, military solution to the conflict in Kosovo ....

"Germany is also extremely concerned about U.S. vacillation in its military commitment to European stability, particularly to the use of nato as a policing tool. That U.S. vacillation has led to the utter disdain in which Serbia holds nato. Germany is looking ahead to the day when it must take a leading role in the defense of Western Europe, and it does not want to take on that role with a dull knife" (ibid.).

Even in 1998, Stratfor saw that Germany's ambition reached beyond Yugoslavia.

Fascist History

Ralph Giordano, television journalist and author, writing in 1993 on the spate of neo-Nazi hate crimes against foreigners that had swept Germany in the previous decade, mused on what he calls Germany's "second guilt" as the reason for the revival of old fascist sympathies in today's Germany.

"A specter is haunting united Germany ... the specter of a brown resurrection! This time, unlike its appearance in the mid-'60s, it is no temporary phenomenon, but is today deeply rooted in the society, and tomorrow will have established itself in the parliamentary structure at both the federal and provincial level" (The Future of German Democracy).

Giordano went on to expose one of the historical connections between the sleaziest aspects of the Allies' approach to post-war German reconstruction and the rise of fascist tendencies in that country today. "With only a few exceptions these perpetrators not only were let off in the end unpunished, but they were also allowed to continue their careers with impunity .... Well into the 1970s the elite of finance, industry and government was almost identical to that under Hitler" (ibid.).

East and West Germany are reunited; Germany's capital is once again Berlin; the country sits astride the crossroads of Eastern and Western Europe. Thus it is now the politics of Germany that powerfully influence politics in all Europe. Just as the embracing of fascism by Hitler's government spread to become the dominant form of governance in Europe prior to World War ii, what emerges from the present-day political melee in Germany will spread to influence its EU partners in their political persuasion.

German fascism has virtually conquered Yugoslavia. People can scoff all they like. But watch Germany. Yugoslavia is only the beginning. German fascism is back, just as we have prophesied for over 50 years. Soon the whole world will understand that.

The Serbs see clearly that Germany was behind the breakdown of former Yugoslavia. We cannot forget that all of Europe, the U.S. and the UN were against Germany when it recognized and strongly supported the breakaway of Slovenia and Croatia. But Germany prevailed. Croatia's breakaway led to civil war. America's secretary of state at the time said that Germany had "a certain responsibility" for the Yugoslav civil war. But he was quickly silenced! And no leader in our government has made such a statement since.

That was one of the powerful truths that became a casualty early in the Yugoslav war.

Germany's Master Plan

Germany has a master plan. We have warned about that master plan since immediately after World War ii. Germany is fast becoming the fascist superpower of the West, as the U.S. collapses as a superpower. You urgently need to understand why this is happening! Please request our free booklet Germany and the Holy Roman Empire.

Margaret Thatcher, former British prime minister, said this about the European Union in October 1995: "You have not anchored Germany to Europe; you have anchored Europe to a newly dominant, unified Germany. In the end, my friends, you'll find it will not work."

She didn't see Germany as a democracy-loving country, but as "a newly dominant" country. Mrs. Thatcher clearly said the European Union was not a democratic union. It is dominated by Germany. But it seems nobody wants to admit that they have not repented of their fascist, Nazi past.

Let the world beware!

Bernard Connolly, in The Rotten Heart of Europe, said the European Union was only a "cloak for German ambitions."

At least we ought to consider such authoritative voices.

First of all, the Germans want to control Europe. To do so, they must gain control of the Balkans, where their fiercest enemy is the Serbs. For the most part, the Serbs have been silenced.

Do you realize that 75 percent of the nato military power in the Kosovo conflict was supplied by the U.S.? That means Germany actually pressured and directed nato-especially the U.S.-to carry out its own fascist ambitions within Europe!

We are going to pay the supreme penalty for such a dangerously misguided foreign policy.

All of Europe, the UN and America caved in to Germany, in spite of its responsibility for the deaths of 60-70 million people in World Wars i and ii!

Germany had all of nato fighting for its cause, and it seems nobody wants to even discuss how it all began.

Is it so hard to understand why the Serbs were enraged? Their country has been systematically destroyed-primarily by Germany. What country would not fight against such an outrage? Does any nation really see the Serbs' point of view?

Since they were our allies in both world wars, we of all people should see their side of the story.

The German master plan is very similar to what the country has done in the past. The only real difference is, it has been much more subtle-so far.

If the Western world would only remember the recent past of Germany, it would frighten us into reality.

The Germans inherently dislike democracy. And we did almost nothing to change that attitude after World War ii.

The March 26, 1999, New York Times stated, "For the first time since the end of World War ii, German fighter jets have gone to war, taking part in the attack on Yugoslavia as part of a nato force and marking this country's definitive emancipation from post-war pacifism. ...

"Still, the German participation in air raids on Yugoslavia is potentially explosive, for it will confirm every dark Serbian suspicion about the West. If there has been a single obsession in Serbian policy this century, it has been to prevent what Belgrade sees as German expansionism in the Balkans.

"'We are not ready to make a distinction between the bombs of Adolf Hitler from 1941 and the bombs of nato,' Vuk Draskovic, the Yugoslavian deputy prime minister, said.

"Strong German support for Croatian independence from Yugoslavia, and Croatia's adoption of the hymn 'Danke Deutschland' when that independence came in 1991, only reinforced Serbian misgivings." Croatia clearly knew its revolt succeeded because of Germany. After all, they didn't sing "Danke nato"!

The leaders of America and Britain don't see what is happening in Yugoslavia because they refuse to see. That attitude of sinful weakness is going to cause us to suffer more than any people ever have in history!

It seems the Serbs were the only ones who recognized the dangerous resurgence of a militant Germany. Germany poses a danger thousands of times greater than the Serbs could ever pose to Europe and the world.

The Serbs have good reason to fear, since they were victims of the German and Croatian Nazis of World War ii. One Trumpet reader from Indiana wrote to us, "After reading your article 'Croatia Reveals the Rising Beast' in the January 1999 issue ... I would like to ... express my deepest gratitude to you for what you have done for me as a human being by publishing that article so that millions of other human beings in the world can understand the Serbs.

"As an American of Serbian descent and a survivor of the horrible Croatian holocaust during World War ii, I would like to tell you, my dear friend, how much I appreciate your personal involvement and effort, and how immensely I am grateful to you for your courage, humanity and patriotism for publishing that article in your magazine. I can assure you that from now on, you'll be my dear friend as long as I live."

A Warning Unheeded

In 1996, a shocking World War ii intelligence document was made public. The document, detailing an August 1944 meeting between top German industrialists, reveals a secret post-war plan to restore the Nazis to power. Several of Germany's elite industries were represented, including Messerschmitt and Volkswagenwerks. These companies, the document asserts, were to "prepare themselves to finance the Nazi Party which would be forced to go underground." When the U.S. declassified this document, it received only sparse news coverage. Yet even more disturbing than the deep stupor of the press is the fact that the U.S. government did not make it public until 1996-over 50 years later!

By 1944, the Germans knew they would lose World War ii and were already planning for the next round! "Existing financial reserves in foreign countries," the document says, "must be placed at the disposal of the party so that a strong German Empire can be created after the defeat."

Those at the 1944 meeting understood that the most prominent members of the Nazi Party would be condemned as war criminals. "However," the document maintains, "in cooperation with the industrialists it is arranging to place its less conspicuous but most important members in positions with various German factories as technical experts or members of its research and designing offices."

How alarming! Why was so little written about this in 1996? Why did it take so long for it to be declassified? America and Britain have fallen asleep-our people don't understand what is happening behind the scenes!

That is why we feel compelled to return to these issues again and again. Hardly anyone else will!

Historians have long debated whether or not a secret Nazi plan was made for a post-war, international network. Now that it has been confirmed, as Elan Steinberg of the World Jewish Congress said, "the central question is whether it has been carried out."

The obvious answer is, it has!

Brian Connell, in his 1957 book A Watcher on the Rhine, offered abundant proof of that plan being carried out. He drew attention to a watershed event in 1947, just two years after the war, when Allied authorities foolishly handed over denazification responsibilities to, of all people, the Germans! After 1947, denazification in Germany, according to Connell, was a farce!

Consider the province of Bavaria for example. "The Bavarian administration," Connell wrote, "is largely in the hands of those who controlled it under Hitler .... Almost all of the 1,000 teachers who were removed for political reasons have been reappointed, representing roughly 60 percent of the teaching staff employed by the Ministry of Education. Sixty percent of the 15,000 employees in the Finance Ministry are former Nazis, and 81 percent of the 924 judges, magistrates and prosecutors in the Ministry of Justice."

There was an attempt made by the Allies to liberalize a narrow method of teaching in German education. Connell stated, "New teachers were appointed, and a degree of independence assured to individual instructions, which should have made education for democracy a feasible proposition. But many of the former Nazi teachers have found their way back."

Later, Connell wrote, "In Western Germany, the newly prosperous Ruhr industrialists, the still impenitent core of former Nazis ... represents a challenge to the democratic order."

Nazism is far from being dead in Germany! Today, right-wing extremism continues to increase dramatically-even in German elections! Should that surprise us?

Let us now look at another important report that never received much press coverage.

The report was given by Herbert W. Armstrong from the United Nations on May 9, 1945, just nine months after the secret meeting between German industrialists. In it Mr. Armstrong said, "The war is over, in Europe-or is it?"

What did he mean by that? Did he know something no one else did? He certainly did!

"We don't understand German thoroughness," he said. "From the very start of World War ii, they have considered the possibility of losing this second round, as they did the first-and they have carefully, methodically planned, in such eventuality, the third round-World War iii! Hitler has lost. This round of war, in Europe, is over. And the Nazis have now gone underground."

Many scoffed at Mr. Armstrong's warning message in 1945. Yet look at how closely his report mirrors what was said in the secret document that was not made public until 50 years later!

Only God's messenger could give such a prophetic message over 50 years ago!

Think about what he said.

Think about what was determined at that secret meeting among top German industrialists.

Think about what Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt said right after the war: "It is our inflexible purpose to destroy German militarism and Nazism."

Yes, think about those issues, and then consider what is happening now. Our leaders today keep acting as though Germany has repented. But the Germans continue in their militant, fascist spirit, in spite of the unparalleled crimes they have committed!

We have forgotten our strong commitment after World War ii to control Germany, and we will pay an indescribable price for that weak and despicable failure in leadership!

You don't prevent Germany from starting World War iii by HELPING them build their empire in Yugoslavia and Europe!

The spirit of that intelligence document is being implemented in Yugoslavia today-and also in other parts of the world. Germany's actions are not those of a people deeply repentant for the deaths of 60-70 million people in two world wars!

Remember, the Bible says our end-time "lovers" will be the ones who inflict great suffering upon us-not our obvious enemies. However, we like to think of ourselves as righteous, while we reject God's warnings!

What Herbert Armstrong prophesied for over 50 years has now come to pass in frightening detail! The Philadelphia Church of God continues to proclaim the same message.

This is all prophesied in your Bible. But you don't even need the Bible to see that terror is about to strike our peoples!

Once the U.S. released and then supported this fascist beast in Croatia and Slovenia, there was no stopping it. It didn't cease until all of Yugoslavia was under its strong influence or control. Now if we think the beast will return to its cage, we are very naive. This world is headed for a nightmare unparalleled in the history of man. And the beast is going to lead us there!

The American and British peoples are without excuse. And so are you. Only God can save you from a disastrous future. Now is the time for every wise person to heed this message. There is so little time left to respond.

Kosovo was a turning point in the Yugoslavia war. After this state essentially came under German influence and control, the rest of Yugoslavia was certain to fall. When Germany's oppressive influence moved beyond Croatia and Slovenia, the careful observer could see that Germany's ambition was to control all of Yugoslavia.

But their ambition goes far beyond even that goal.

Sidebar: A Nice Gift From the U.S.

Under the umbrella of nato, Germany has in recent years obtained complete acceptance by the West of the deployment of both its ground and air forces in combat roles. Not only that, the Kosovo conflict is gaining for Germany that which it has sought all along in the Balkans: a warm-water port.

Durrлs, the principle port on the coast of Albania in the warm Adriatic Sea, is the plum. The port of Durrлs, located near the junction of the Adriatic and Mediterranean seas, is within closest proximity of any port in either sea to the largest concentration of ballistic and anti-ballistic weaponry in the entire Mediterranean region. The German-dominated EU is spending $17 million to renovate this port as it busily reconstructs Albania's infrastructure.

Albania became the main base of operations for the peacekeeping forces in Yugoslavia during the Kosovo war. The trade-off was the huge benefit to its weakened ex-Maoist economy. As the U.S. and nato withdraw from the Balkans, their place is being taken by the emerging Euroforce. The German-led EU will eventually take over all of the infrastructure put in place and maintained to that point largely by U.S. and British taxpayers' money in support of their defense contribution to lame-duck nato.

In the Balkan Peninsula, it will then be game, set and match to Germany. Germany-the peace-broker in Kosovo, the future administrator of Kosovo and of the whole Balkan Peninsula-the lead nation in the Eurocombine shortly to rule the European continent and extend its powerful reach globally to impact all nations.

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 10:35 AM (GMT)
2. "Gerald Flurry religiozen lazgo"
Gerald Flurry: a Religious Fraud?

I have strong reason to believe that Gerald Flurry not only is a fraud, but a knowing, conniving fraud at that. I know for a fact that the PCG minister of the Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) area came to see that Malachi's Message had many "holes" in it and told Flurry that. At the time the DFW area was the largest growing in the PCG. This minister was beloved by most of the brethren. Flurry asked him to keep his views of MM to himself and not tell the brethren. He did that for about 3 years. He told me that for 3 years he never mentioned MM in a sermon, bible study, or even in conversation. His church area continued to be the fastest growing in the PCG worldwide. Which means it was the money-making congregation of the PCG, despite the fact that the minister didn't preach on MM or any other Flurry booklet for that matter. He preached mostly on Christian living type messages, and he had the fastest growing congregation in the PCG. Do you see the correlation here? And during these 3 years Flurry knew that this minister didn't agree with most of MM, the central book of the PCG. Finally this minister couldn't put up with the lies and deception any longer and pressed
Flurry and "Chief SS officer" Ron Fraser more. Fraser himself even came to see that a significant part of MM was indeed flawed, but Flurry told him that he was either loyal to "that prophet" or he wasn't, and to make up his mind. Fraser decided to remain loyal to Flurry so that he could keep his rather significant paycheck and work visa to remain in America. The DFW minister was disfellowshipped and marked. Now, the DFW congregation is down to around a dozen people, all of the large tithe-payers are gone. The current minister there
teaches MM and is very loyal to all of Flurry's doctrines.
I know that Flurry and Fraser would deny this, but I have this whole story, and more, based on the testimony of 4 people who were there and were involved. While people were being kicked out for not swearing allegiance to Malachi's Message, a minister was allowed to keep on ministering who didn't agree with it. But it was because he was popular and was raking in the dough for Gerry. That's all there is to it. Gerry is perhaps insane, or delusional, but he is also a greedy fraud. And he knows he's a fraud, don't you Gerry? And you know too, don't you Ron? I wish the Federal Government could see how an Australian (Fraser) is over here on a visa helping to scam thousands of Americans in the name of religion. His Aussie ass would be deported immediately. I hope it happens soon. By the way, Fraser had his heart attack down in Texas during the time when he was seeing that a part of MM was wrong, and he was trying to decide what to do. He had the heart attack after he gave a sermon backing up MM after he knew it was incorrect. I think his conscious got to him. Now he works for the devil, his mind is made up. He has chosen who his boss is, and is stronger than ever. But the cult is falling apart. Thank God!! You never totally get away with it, Gerry and Ron, not even in this life.

Thou makest this people to trust in a lie.
~Jeremiah 28:15


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Skopjanec Click to EMail SkopjanecClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 03:49 PM (GMT)
3. "Tocno li e kazanoto za UCK?"
Dali covekot saka da propoveda del od hristijanstvoto (tnr. "poraka na Malaki") ili ne, i dali nekoj se slozuva so toj negov stav i go narekuva "lazgo" bidejkji covekot ne saka, ne e moe da sudam. Toa se religiozni nesoglasuvanja i nemaat vrska so temata.

Informacijata bese za vrskite i pomosta na germanskata vlada do teroristickata organizacija UCK. Visare, ke cueme li nekogas komentar za tie vrski od tebe ili tvoite UCK-podrzuvaci?

Eve eden FBIS izvestaj na istata tema emituvan na germanskata ARD TV:

"UCK USING ARMS SUPPLIED BY GERMAN INTELLIGENCE"

In its Monitor magazine program at 1900 GMT on 24 September, Munich ARD Television Network in German carries a 7-minute report by Jo Angerer
and Volker Happe which alleges that the Albanian Liberation Army is using German weapons.

The report starts off by showing UCK fighters in villages near the Albanian border. An unidentified UCK commander says that they will defend their villages "until Kosovo becomes independent." Asked what arms they are using, he replies that "we have enough weapons to fight until Kosovo becomes independent."

The report then shows Serb soldiers who have caught an UCK arms smuggler at the Albanian border. The reporters say that "anyone who is
caught smuggling arms here is shot." When they search the smuggled goods, the soldiers find ammunition of Chinese origin, but also hi-tech arms, such as "Armbrust" anti-tank grenade launchers, "which the German company MBB
developed for the German Bundeswehr, and which were built in Singapore under German license," the report states. It continues to say that German anti-tank grenade launchers were also among the weapons that Serb troops showed to international correspondents a couple of days earlier, saying that these had been seized from arms smugglers. Beside these arms, the
correspondents were also shown radio equipment and military monitoring equipment, some of which came from Germany, Angerer and Happe say.

Monitor says that Germany was "cooperating closely" with Albania in the early 1990's, after the Communist regime in Tirana collapsed. It says
that in 1990 and 1991 the German Federal Intelligence Service's (BND) resident in Tirana was involved in "several illegal arms supplies," which had been arranged by the Military Counter Intelligence Service (MAD) in Cologne. A former MAD official, who was involved in the arms supplies and did not want to be identified, is quoted as saying that the arms supplies were ordered "by the very top" and that the operation is still being treated as strictly confidential today. The report continues to say that
another informer who was involved in the operation has confirmed these statements. A written statement by that informer is read out, which says that "in 1990 and 1991, the MAD supplied electronic and optical monitoring
equipment and other equipment, such as radios, to the Albanian intelligence service. The monitoring equipment came from the former GDR's Ministry for
State Security, which the Bundeswehr took over after unification, and from MAD supplies. MAD officials trained Albanian intelligence service
personnel in Tirana to use this equipment."

Monitor concludes that it was via these channels that the military equipment from Germany has reached the UCK. It continues to say that the
Federal Defense Ministry "has denied the MAD supplies to Albania, as well as the training of Albanian intelligence service personnel." Yet, "several eyewitnesses from both the BND and the MAD confirmed to Monitor that members of the Bundeswehr's school for communications in Bad Ems visited the Albanian capital Tirana for that purpose on several occasions, and so did members of the MAD in Cologne," says the report. Intelligence service expert Erich Schmidt-Eenboom states that the "training of Albanian intelligence service personnel by MAD employees is
not at all consistent with the MAD law of December 1990."

The report concludes by saying that the German Government "has also helped the Albanian Army quite legally," by supplying military vehicles,
combat equipment, and "even engines for combat aircraft" in 1996. This military equipment is "now being used in Kosovo," Angerer and Happe say.

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 04:02 PM (GMT)
4. "odgovor"
Prvo toj religiozen manijak-lazgo ne e verodostoen analiticar taka da nema sto da se doobjasnuvam za nego.

Za oruzjeto i uniformite na UCK e vistina deka del bea nabavuvani od Germanija.Vo vojna e legitimno pravo da se vooruzuvas.Neli toa vie go pravivte so Ukraina,samo nemoj da mi kazes deka vie imate pravo za toa a nie ne

Po taa logika i srpska vojska bese nabavuvac na oruzje na UCK.Toa se sluci vo 1998 koga cel eden magacin vo severno Kosovo bese prodaden na UCK od srpskite komandanti za 1 milion marki

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Karabdalica Click to EMail KarabdalicaClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 04:39 PM (GMT)
5. "Интересно..."

Продолжете, ве читам !

Карабдалица

П.С. А она оружје од Албанија после распадот на Албанската армија 1997 под преседателство на г. Сали Бериша....каде заврши тоа ?
... и кој и за што го искористи ?

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 04:50 PM (GMT)
6. ""komandante" neli si makedonec"
vidi vaka gjubre edno teroristicko naivno e da objasnuvam na maloumnik kou znae tocno za shto mu se zboruva i shto e uck no zamizuva pred faktite i so zamena na teoriite negovata uck orda ja prikazuva kako zrtva na nivnite zrtvi (rachak, bobiljka , jluboten taktika i maliciozna propaganda) Vazno e istoi deka uck e teroristicka organizacija od Srbija- Kosovo i taa izvrshi agresija vrz AMkedonija taka da ti kako makedonec nemash nishto zaednicko so uck !!!!!!

toa kako uck go nabavuvala oruzjeto e najmalku vazno i bash nikogo i ne interesira (zadninata na prikaznata za oruzje od Germanij a e vazna) a toa "nie" i "vie" nema potreba da se objasnuva, dovolno zboruva za tvoite malumni motivi na ziveenje i dejstvuvanje vo ova opshtestvo. uck e teroristicka organizacija , taka i se odnesuvashe a taka i se odnesuva , posebno shto i denes ne ste prestanale so tie dejstvija posle "borbata za prava" , Toa so sporedbite so srbite spreduvajte se "vie" so shokun Miloshevic, toj vi e reper za "borba za prava". Znaci "vie" moze da si pravish vo shiptarija ili na kosovo, gubi se so tvojata diva orda, a na site normalni i civiulizirani albanci koi prifacaat demokratija i zakoni nikoj ne im brani da ziveat so "nas" na celata Makedonska teritorija !!!

Za izednacuvanje na pravoto za nabavka na oruzje od strana na armija i policija na demokratska drzava so "pravoto" za nabavka na edna teroristicka i fashisticka organizacija ???!!! toa kazuva za tvojata izvrtena i perverzna logika na razmisluvanje oslobodena od sekakvi eticki i civilizirani normi. Sigurno tuka spagjaat i uck-biserite za "grantiranjeto na ALBANSKI sela" od strana na policijata i vojskata i tvoite omileni temi za vikendici, odmori, letuvanja, koli ??????!!!!! Moram na kratko da preciziram za da nekoj neuptaen vo uck kauzata ne se izgubi. Toa "komanadantite" tvrdat deka makedonskata policija sramnila so zemja albanski sela (pazi , albanski ) vo koi "moznata uck" drzeshe zaloznici i se krieshe vo objekti za potoa da tvrdi deka ALBANSKI SELA bile granatirani ????!!!!!

sakash li dokaz deka uck e teroristicka organizacija ?! saksh li dokaz i deka i ti si terorista, malumen fashist, hipokrit, primitivec ?!

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 05:05 PM (GMT)
7. "Posleden pat"
Pak izbuvna so fasizoidnost i so tebe ne moze da se diskutira normalno. Nema vise ta ti odgovaram bidejki e jasno deka koga nemas argumenti reagiras bez kontrola omalovazuvas i se spustas nisko.Si se zaprasal nekogas za Krusevskata Republika ili za NOB odnosno kade tie komiti i partizani zemale oruzje i za sto se borele.Spored toa sto go pisuvas i Kiro Gligorov e terorista i Jane Sandanski.Ali dzabe so sitna psihicki poremetena dusa ne se razgovara
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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 05:28 PM (GMT)
8. "RE: Posleden pat"
>Si se zaprasal nekogas
>za Krusevskata Republika ili za
>NOB odnosno kade tie komiti
>i partizani zemale oruzje i
>za sto se borele.Spored toa
>sto go pisuvas i Kiro
>Gligorov e terorista i Jane
>Sandanski.

Visar,
Tocno e deka Pragmaticar izleguva od ramkite na prifatliv dijalog, no bi te zamolil da mi objasnis sto sakas so pogornoto da kazes? Zarem se osuduvas da gi svedes vo isto ravenstvo aspiraciite na komitite od Ilinden, partizanite od NOB, so tvoite UCK-i? Non sens. Kazi mi po sto (spored tebe) gi povrzuvas istoriskite nastani so ona na koe sme sovremenici?
Pozdrav
Stoper

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 06:05 PM (GMT)
9. "RE: Posleden pat"
Osloboduvanje ali tesko deka ke go svatite toa.Sega zavisno od stepenot na obespravenost,vreme i mesto ali esencijalno e toa.Dodeka Makedoncite ne ja prihvatat svojata hegemonisticka proslost sto ja imaat pa bilo toa vo nesto poblaga forma odosto od srbite tesko deka ke mozat da razberat sto se sluci vo 2001.Do togas ke imame skopljanci so teorii na ucka orda teroristi so mobiljki i drugi naucno-fantasticki teori za medjunaroden komplot protiv makedoncite koi po nekogas moram da priznam se segoviti.Znam deka e tesko i mozebi neprifatlivo vo momentov bidejki celata Makedonska Istorija i drzava e izgradena vo vasata borba za sloboda i ravnopravnost toa ne go osporuvam.I sega eden narod koj so vekovi se boril za prava odednas ne moze da bide hegemon (toa vi se vrti vo glava celo vreme). Vo 1945 steknavte drzava ali taa pocna da se gradi vrz hegemonisticki temeli.Tie tamu drugite ostanaa "malcintvo" i ne berevte gajle za niv se do 2001 koga tie tamu se pobunija i den denes se prasuvate zosto.Toa prvo treba da go svatite.Iskreno mnogu bi sakal albancite da bea malcintvo i se ke bese polesno za site ali toa e nevozmozno.Toj most treba sami da go pominete.
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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 19-Feb-04, 06:59 PM (GMT)
10. "RE: Posleden pat"
>Osloboduvanje ali tesko deka ke go
>svatite toa.Sega zavisno od stepenot
>na obespravenost,vreme i mesto ali
>esencijalno e toa.Dodeka Makedoncite ne
>ja prihvatat svojata hegemonisticka proslost
>sto ja imaat pa bilo
>toa vo nesto poblaga forma
>odosto od srbite tesko deka
>ke mozat da razberat sto
>se sluci vo 2001.Do togas
>ke imame skopljanci so teorii
>na ucka orda teroristi so
>mobiljki i drugi naucno-fantasticki teori
>za medjunaroden komplot protiv makedoncite
>koi po nekogas moram da
>priznam se segoviti.Znam deka e
>tesko i mozebi neprifatlivo vo
>momentov bidejki celata Makedonska Istorija
>i drzava e izgradena vo
>vasata borba za sloboda i
>ravnopravnost toa ne go osporuvam.I
>sega eden narod koj so
>vekovi se boril za prava
>odednas ne moze da bide
>hegemon (toa vi se vrti
>vo glava celo vreme). Vo
>1945 steknavte drzava ali taa
>pocna da se gradi vrz
>hegemonisticki temeli.Tie tamu drugite ostanaa
>"malcintvo" i ne berevte gajle
>za niv se do 2001
>koga tie tamu se pobunija
>i den denes se prasuvate
>zosto.Toa prvo treba da go
>svatite.Iskreno mnogu bi sakal albancite
>da bea malcintvo i se
>ke bese polesno za site
>ali toa e nevozmozno.Toj most
>treba sami da go pominete.

Dobro Visar, otvori poveke temi na koi se lepime site kako muvi na serbet. Moite gledista se dijametralno sprotivni od tvoite. Eve zosto:

1. Borbata na nasite predci niz istorijata bila vo osnova za dve raboti: nacionalni prava i osloboditelna vojna. Znaci za sozdavanje na drzava, no i za osloboduvanje od vladeenjeto na tudjinci. Nasite predci nikogas ne se borele za poveke prava so puski, zatoa sto vo podalecnata istorija nemale moznost da imaat ni elementarni prava. Sporedi go ova so pravata i participiranjeto vo vlasta na tvojata etnicka grupa vo Makedonija. Bevte li celo vreme vo centralnata vlast, vo lokalnite vlasti? Kako toa go praktikuvaa politicarite, toa e druga tema.

2. Hegemonisam, vo smisla koja ti ja spomnuvas, nitu postoel, nitu moze da postoi vo Makedonija. Kulturnite identiteti na site etnicki i religiozni zaednici se slobodno izrazuvaat. Prasanjeto za individualnite prava e mnogu posustestveno od kolektivistickite hegemoni aspiracii koi gi spomnuvas. Ako zboruvame za efikasnosta na sistemot i drzavata vo odnos na individualnite prava, togas ni jas ne sum zadovolen ,kako i mnozinata (verojatno) gradjani na drzavata, no sepak ne zemam oruzje za da gi resam problemite koi me macat.

3. Prikaznata deka se borevte za poveke prava mnogu e naivna. Mozebi vo Dizniland ke projde, no kaj ovie generacii Makedonci, tesko. Vasta ideja (odnosno zanesuvanje) bese da preku "osvojuvanje" na delovi od teritorijata sozdadete avtonomna oblast koja ke se pripoi vo proektot za golema (kolku stupidno zvuci) drzava. Sepak, i pokraj "sutracite" Makedonci koi bea na vlast i celata neefikasnost na drzavata, ne vi uspea proektot, od pricina sto nemavte kapacitet da odite do kraj i sto ne vi projde zamislata kaj medjunarodnata zaednica. Ako zapadnite drzavi prifatea da se ostvari vasiot proekt, togas celata nivna prikazna za covekovi prava i dijalog medju narodite, propadja; odnosno togas tie treba da ja smenat prikaznata, no ne za kaj nas, tuku za pred nivnoto javno mislenje.

4. Dali ste malcinstvo ili ne ste? Ti velis deka ne ste bile malcinstvo. Procitaj go znacenjeto na zborot "minority" koj e ekvivalenten na zborot "malcinstvo" kaj nas. Sustinskoto negovo znacenje e deka odredena grupa na ludje, koi za sebe velat deka se homogenizirana celina od X pricini, e vo pomal broj od vkupniot broj na ludje koi ziveat vo edna drzava. Dali e ovaa konstatcija tocna za vas? Dali ste pomalku vo ramkite na drzavata od drugite ludje koi se razlikuvaat od vas? Ako ste, (a ste) togas ste malcinstvo.

Za sega imam tolku vreme, poveke so sledniot post
Pozdrav
Stoper

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 10:36 AM (GMT)
13. "po milioniti pat"
LAST EDITED ON 20-Feb-04 AT 10:46 AM (GMT)

odlicno Stoper, ti aplaudiram. Bez nikakov cinizam i podsmev ti oddavam priznanie za tvoite postovi vo koi so konzistenten i umeren stil na pishuvanje go kazuvash toa shto i jas go kazuvam no smetam deka takviot stil na komunikacija so hipokrit i terorista e povece od naiven. Jas ja zboruvam vistinata i ti go znaesh toa (isto i uckata go znae toa) !!!!

Obidot da mi se prilepi etiketa deka navreduvam i deka ne prifacam razgovor so objasnuvanje deka "sum odlepuval" i slicno e samo smeshen izgovor da se odbegnat prashanjata vo nekoi 6-70 postovi "komandantot" sekogash se naogja iznenagjen-i-uvregjen za da prodolzi da vergla shto zbuljimi-kontrazbuljimi gi uci kako da ja vodat SPECIJALNATA VOJNA.

Zar ima neshto povece da se dodade koga se raboti za ovoj maloumnik i negovata orda so ogled deka GO NEGIRAAT OCIGLEDNOTO ; deka rachak, mobiljka taktikite se dokazan arsenal od SPECIJALNATA VOJNA a ovoj "intelktualecot" na toa se potsmeva kako da se raboti za nekoja paranoja na slavomekodonsklite hegemonisti (dzaferi shkola); spored nivnata izvrtena perverzna logika za nekakvi prethodni 50 godini imaat pravo so fashisticki metodi i genocid "da vracaat za nepravdite"; vrshi klasicna zamena na teorii koga tvrdat deka tie se "povece od malcinstvo" za postorno da se opravda genocid i fashizam ?!!! ; relativiziranje na faktite za toa deka albancite i se ushte se malcinstvo i deka spored site megjunarodni izveshtai so site slobodi garantirani so ustav i zakoni; pravi sporedba pomegju NOB, Ilinden (ja negira i opravdanosta na alijansata protiv Nacisticka Germanija ) so klasicna agresija od terosristicka organizacija i toa od megjunaroden protektorat, koja pak terorsiticka organizacija vrshi etnicko cistenje i genocid za navodna "borba za prava" ; potencira deka dedo mu na nekoja poljanana vo Skopsko vo 1912 "go oslobodil Skopje" i zakacil crni orli ; zboruva za "nie" i "vie" , za "istoriski aLbanski teritorii"


ima tolkiuu sporni i kontradiktorni momenti koi uporno gi vergla tvojot sogovornik "komandant" i ednostavno nema nikakva konzistentnost i logicka povrzanost vo negovite stavovi i tezi bidejci od edna vo druga recenica kazuva dva stava koi po site zakoni na logikata, humanosta i civilizacijata se stavovi na hipokrit i fashista . Ce potenciram ushte ednash (gi skokam bezbrojnite kontradiktornosti i poedinosti na maloumnata uck kauza koja toj ja zastapuva a se obrazlozeni vo vo tie 6-70 postovi na koi niednash ne odgovoril a sekogash vracal so provokacija i laga deka Goce, bocite od NOB se terosristi ) , maloumnikot veruva i deka fashizmot i genocidot na uckite vrz Makedoncite i celiot teror koj se sluci i se ushte trae e legalen metod za "osvojuvanje na prava" (pardon, teritorii za golemi shiptarii) i deka od bilo koja vremenska distanca i aspekt na gledanje UCKite vrshat DOBAR (citaj prijaten, opravdan, dobronameren, human , civiliziran ) FASHIZAM I TERORIZAM

A na maloumnikot mu objasniv fino deka nemashe potreba da se vrshi agresija na od terosticka organizacija od nadvor (koja e negovata vrska so uck od Srbija-Kosovo koga toj e makedonec ) i da osvojuvaat "prava" so genocid i fashizam , tuku beshe dovolno stotina "borci za prava" da vlezat vo parlament, da gi zarobat parlamentarcite (kako socijaldemokrati ne mi e jasno kako ne im tekna deka pravata se dobivaat od parlament ) da ubijat nekolku, nekoku da izmaskariraat, nekolku da gi siluvaat , da srushat nekolku stolba od poarlamentot , voda da ne im pushtaat na ednata strana od kancelariite i na kraj da ostavat dovolno za da gio nateraat da im izglasaat povece prava. Tolku ednostavno a ic ne im tekna Shto mislish ti za ova ? Isto te molam kazi mi shto e tuka sporno i navredlivo vo mojata poraka do maloumnikot (samo pazi deka od moja strana e definirano deka toj e fashist i terorist znaci otpagja varijantata za neargumetirano "delenje na komplimenti", odnosno pod pretpostavka deka nekoj e "takov" dali mozesh da kazesh neshto poumereno za primitivec koj ubivanjeto i genocidot moze da gi smeta za "prijatni" i "ispravni" pa makar i da bil obespraven).

Zbuljimi-kontrazbuljimi :
1. Negiraj se'
2. vo nemoc napadni so laga
3. 5 pati povtorena laga, stanuva vistina
4. kontinuirana zamena na teorii
5. rachak, mobiljki i ljuboten taktiki (prikazuvanje kako zrtva na tvojata zrtva)


vidi vaka gjubre edno teroristicko naivno e da objasnuvam na maloumnik kou znae tocno za shto mu se zboruva i shto e uck no zamizuva pred faktite i so zamena na teoriite negovata uck orda ja prikazuva kako zrtva na nivnite zrtvi (rachak, bobiljka , jluboten taktika i maliciozna propaganda) Vazno e istoi deka uck e teroristicka organizacija od Srbija- Kosovo i taa izvrshi agresija vrz AMkedonija taka da ti kako makedonec nemash nishto zaednicko so uck !!!!!!
toa kako uck go nabavuvala oruzjeto e najmalku vazno i bash nikogo i ne interesira (zadninata na prikaznata za oruzje od Germanij a e vazna) a toa "nie" i "vie" nema potreba da se objasnuva, dovolno zboruva za tvoite malumni motivi na ziveenje i dejstvuvanje vo ova opshtestvo. uck e teroristicka organizacija , taka i se odnesuvashe a taka i se odnesuva , posebno shto i denes ne ste prestanale so tie dejstvija posle "borbata za prava" , Toa so sporedbite so srbite spreduvajte se "vie" so shokun Miloshevic, toj vi e reper za "borba za prava". Znaci "vie" moze da si pravish vo shiptarija ili na kosovo, gubi se so tvojata diva orda, a na site normalni i civiulizirani albanci koi prifacaat demokratija i zakoni nikoj ne im brani da ziveat so "nas" na celata Makedonska teritorija !!!

Za izednacuvanje na pravoto za nabavka na oruzje od strana na armija i policija na demokratska drzava so "pravoto" za nabavka na edna teroristicka i fashisticka organizacija ???!!! toa kazuva za tvojata izvrtena i perverzna logika na razmisluvanje oslobodena od sekakvi eticki i civilizirani normi. Sigurno tuka spagjaat i uck-biserite za "grantiranjeto na ALBANSKI sela" od strana na policijata i vojskata i tvoite omileni temi za vikendici, odmori, letuvanja, koli ??????!!!!! Moram na kratko da preciziram za da nekoj neuptaen vo uck kauzata ne se izgubi. Toa "komanadantite" tvrdat deka makedonskata policija sramnila so zemja albanski sela (pazi , albanski ) vo koi "moznata uck" drzeshe zaloznici i se krieshe vo objekti za potoa da tvrdi deka ALBANSKI SELA bile granatirani ????!!!!!

sakash li dokaz deka uck e teroristicka organizacija ?! saksh li dokaz i deka i ti si terorista, malumen fashist, hipokrit, primitivec ?!

Ova e negovata uck (samo toj znae kako moze da bide negova koga toj e makedonec a uck e od Srbija-Kosovo a tuka nekoja si ONA-terosristicka organizacija deluvashe) :


Војниците на КФОР и полицијата на УНМИК синоќа пронајдоа две неидентификувани тела во близина на Противпожарниот дом во Љипљан, изјави портпаролот на мултиетничката косовска општина Борислав Вигњевиќ.

Тој рече дека телата биле пронајдени откако во Љипљан претходно во два наврати се слушнало пукање. Истрелите насочени кон српска куќа во селото Старо Градско дошле од насока на албанското село Алаш.


Италијанските карабинери утрово во Призрен го уапсија командантот на Втората зона на косовксиот заштитетн корпус генералот Селим Красниќи.

Извори од УНМИК наведуваат дека во акцијата која е во тек на подрачјето на Приштина и Призрен се уапсени уште четворица офицери на КЗК.

Красниќи е осомничен за воени злосторства на Косово во периодот од 1998 - 1999 година, вклучувајќи и убиства на косовски Албанци.


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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 10:44 AM (GMT)
14. "RE: Posleden pat"
Se gleda deka makedoncite ne gi poznavat albancite i obratno.Tuka pocnuva problemot.Vie ne gi znaete albancite bidejki ne ste imale potreba od toa vo poslednive 50 i nesto godini.So niv se zanimavase drzavata a vie od vreme na vreme ke vidite nekoj albanec na Bit Pazar prodavajki kompiri.Albancite ne gi poznavat makedoncite bidejki accessot im bese "zabranet" vo taa zona.Pomnam dve vreminja pred 90-ta koga vo edna Institucija rabotea 78 vraboteni od niv 77 makedonci.Nemase problemi se bese vo red.Posle 90-ta brojot na makedoncite "padna" do 70 i togas tie pocnaa da zboruvat isto kako i ti, za golemoalbanska ekspanzija eve sakaat da ni gi zazemat mestata itn itn.Toa "malcintvo" od sekogas bese tuka vo Makedonija ali ti ne si imal moznost da go vidis(osven vo Bit Pazar)tuka e taa hegemonija gradena so godini i sega odednas realnosta ve demantira.Ve poznavam kako narod mnogu dobro bidejki skoro celiot zivot ziveev,studirav i rabotev so vas.Zatoa vi pisuvam tuka za da ja spoznaete i drugata strana bidejki ne ja poznavate dobro.Novi vreminja dojdoa albanecot nema da go najdete samo vo Bit Pazar i treba da se naviknete na toa.Moeto vreme odmina ali gledam novite generacii ne mozat veke da cekat taka da sto po brzo gi postavime temelite na Novata Makedonija tolku pobrzo ke odime napred.Ovaa Nova Makedonija svatete go kako termin za odrednica na novite relacii pomedju dvata naroda vo drzavava.
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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 12:26 PM (GMT)
19. "RE: Posleden pat"
>Se gleda deka makedoncite ne gi
>poznavat albancite i obratno.Tuka pocnuva
>problemot.Vie ne gi znaete albancite
>bidejki ne ste imale potreba
>od toa vo poslednive 50
>i nesto godini.

Visar,
Mi se cini deka ednas veke ti spomnav, no ako si zaboravil eve pak: zapoznav i drugaruvav so Kosovari podolgo vreme; ne vo Kosovo, ne vo Makedonija, vo stranstvo. Pocetokot bese tezok, imase strasna nedoverba od dvete strani. Koga dojdovme vo situacija da si pomogneme edni na drugi, duri togas se stvori doverba. Cudno, no vo niv ne gledav neprijateli, a nitu tie vo mene. Rabotevme cesno, tesko, no znaevme da sedneme i na kafe i na po edna caska. Duri, imase priliki koga nivni sonarodnici doagaa i se raspravaa zosto tie se druzat so mene. Vsusnost, jas ne go razbiram jazikot, no evidentni bea zolcnite diskusii za moeto prisustvo. Vsusnost, mu smetav na nekoj oti sum Makedonec.

Dojde krizata vo Kosovo, jas ne bev vo Makedonija, no gledjaki gi edna vecer poslednite vesti, go vidov eden od "moite" Kosovari kako dava izjava na granicata so Makedonija. Bese vraten na Kosovo da si ja zastiti familijata i so nea bese vo kolonata koja begase prema Skopje. Se javiv kaj moi ludje i preku niv ponudiv da se smesti nadvor od kampovite.

Da ne dolzam, tocno e deka koga ne se poznavame ke ziveeme vo dva rzlicni sveta. No, tocno e deka tvojata etnicka grupa e mnogu zatvorena, patrijalhalna. Za toa zosto e taka ne e viniovna samo drzavata. Sepak ima raboti koi pomladite generacii treba da gi promenat najprvin vo odnosite vo ramkite na familijata.


<togas tie pocnaa
>da zboruvat isto kako i
>ti, za golemoalbanska ekspanzija eve
>sakaat da ni gi zazemat
>mestata itn itn.Toa "malcintvo" od
>sekogas bese tuka vo Makedonija
>ali ti ne si imal
>moznost da go vidis(osven vo
>Bit Pazar)tuka e taa hegemonija
>gradena so godini i sega
>odednas realnosta ve demantira.

Za toa malcinstvo tocno e deka bese vo odreden broj odsekogas tuka. No, ne bese vo ovoj broj koj e denes. Bidejki se bavam, pokraj drugoto, i so odrdeni proucuvanja na demografski faktori, ne drzi za mene tezata deka natalitetot e toj koj go zgolemil brojot na ovaa populacija. Ne; se raboti za mehanicki priliv od sosedtvoto: Albanija, a predi se Kosovo. Teritorijalnata ekspanzijata e normalna pojava koga ima golem priroden prirast na edna populacija. Primer: eksperiment so populacija na gluvci (vrsen vo UK) koi se vo odreden zatvoren prostor. Do odreden moment reprodukcijata se odviva bez problem bidejki ima prirodni resursi vo toj prostor za zivot. Sto se slucuva posle ogromniot prirast? Bidejki prostorot im e limitiran, golem broj od populacijata od gluvci stanuva homoseksualna. Prirodata si gi nalozuva svoite zakoni. Znaci golemiot natalitet bara i novi prostori, novi resursi za zivot. Toa e slucajot i so tvoite sonarodnici od sosedstvoto, za koi ne bi imal nisto protiv da bidat del od Makedonskata drzava, ako ja pocituvaat istata i se odnesuvaat nenasilno.

>Novi vreminja dojdoa
>albanecot nema da go najdete
>samo vo Bit Pazar i
>treba da se naviknete na
>toa.Moeto vreme odmina ali gledam
>novite generacii ne mozat veke
>da cekat taka da sto
>po brzo gi postavime temelite
>na Novata Makedonija tolku pobrzo
>ke odime napred.Ovaa Nova Makedonija
>svatete go kako termin za
>odrednica na novite relacii pomedju
>dvata naroda vo drzavava.

Visare, premnogu se "gordees" sto si demek bil Albanec. Daj kazi mi nesto drugo so sto bi se pofalil? Za mene licno toa ne mi izgleda tolku vazna rabota za postojano potenciranje. Premnogu si ubeden deka tvoeto glediste na rabotite e najispravno i deka "sega mu e majkata" da se emancipiras, no ako moze vrz nesrekata na drugiot koj za sega e Makedonecot.

Konfuzii i kontradiktornosti ima vo tvoite gledanja na rabotite, no sepak i toa e del od edno kolektivisticko percepiranje na okolinata. Kolku pobrzo se oslobodis od prikaznata na tvojata zaednica (deka ste totalno onepravdani i deka vie ste semokni) tolku pobrzo ke bides SVOJ.

Pozdrav
Stoper

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 12:51 PM (GMT)
21. "istrazuvanja"
Samo za edno istrazuvanje ke ti kazam posto ti se dopadjat istrazuvanjata.Ne se raboti za gluvci i homoseksualci tuku konkretno za ludje.

Dokumentot e obemen i ke ti zeme vreme ali procitaj go.Toj vo mikroplan go zema Kicevo so site detalni objasnuvanja za Istorija,Vrabotuvanje,prava,demografija,Rudnici itn itn.Istrazuvanjeto e na ESI pomognato od UNDP.Ostavi gi UK gluvcite ovaa e realnosta vrz koja se bazira i stavot na Medjunarodniot faktor.Mozebi ke svatis nesto i ke ti tekne sto vsusnost Visar pisuva.Dokumentot e na Makedonski.

verzijata procitaj ja na:

http://www.esiweb.org/pdf/esi_document_id_42.pdf


I na kraj si go prasal li dedoti sto stana so pola milion "turci" od Makedonija iseleni od 1950 do 1975 pa duri i do 1980.Ako sme kaj istrazivanjata za gluvcite sto ti gi zemas za primer ke te prasam: Sto bese taa najezda od Istocna Makedonija kon Skopje posle 1963 godina.... se delea stanovi,baraki zemja,placevi vrabotuvanja i prosto se isprazani Istocna Makedonija.

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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:05 PM (GMT)
31. "RE: istrazuvanja"
>Samo za edno istrazuvanje ke ti
>kazam posto ti se dopadjat
>istrazuvanjata.Ne se raboti za gluvci
>i homoseksualci tuku konkretno za
>ludje.


>Dokumentot e obemen i ke ti
>zeme vreme ali procitaj go.Toj
>vo mikroplan go zema Kicevo
>so site detalni objasnuvanja za
>Istorija,Vrabotuvanje,prava,demografija,Rudnici itn itn.Istrazuvanjeto e na
>ESI pomognato od UNDP.Ostavi gi
>UK gluvcite ovaa e realnosta
>vrz koja se bazira i
>stavot na Medjunarodniot faktor.Mozebi ke
>svatis nesto i ke ti
>tekne sto vsusnost Visar pisuva.Dokumentot
>e na Makedonski.
>
>verzijata procitaj ja na:
>
>http://www.esiweb.org/pdf/esi_document_id_42.pdf

Blagodaram mnogu za dokumentot

Vednas da kazam deka go procitav celiot so dosta golemo vnimanie. Dobar dokument, bi rekol dobra podloga za posiroka polemika. Toa sto se odnesuva samo za reonot na Kicevo, mozebi moze da mu se dade edna lokalna konotacija, no verojatno, od kontekst moze da se izvadat i raboti koi se realnost i vazat za zapadniot del od Makedonija. Podetalno da pisuvam za izvestajot nemozam, od prosta pricina sto ke odzeme dosta vreme. Nakratko:
Se nametnuva zaklucok deka i Makedoncite i Albancite ziveat vo losa ekonomska sostojba, so toa sto Makedoncite se uste se brojno poveke vo drzavnite institucii (koe veke ne e nekoja privilegija), no od druga strana, koristejki ja emigracijata, Albancite imaat pojaka kupovna moznost. Bidejki i avtorite na dokumentot si go postavuvaat toa prasanje i jas se prasuvam: zosto ne investira emigracijata (bez razlika od koja etnicka pripadnost) vo Makedonija? Sakame stranski investicii, a "nasi" ludje ne sakaat da pravat biznis vo ovaa drzava. Nekolku objasnuvanja postojat:
- i pokraj deklarativnite poraki na site politicari i partii deka sme za pazarna ekonomija i demokratsko opstestvo, sepak ni edna (potenciram ni edna) partiska struktura se uste ne e podgotvena i prakticno da deluva vo ovoj pravec. Nasledstvo na mentalitet (od komunjarite), birokratizam (prisuten vo sekoj drzaven aparta), netransparentnost (moznost za korupcii i necensi zdelki), nemanje na strucen potencijal za biznis, voluntaristicko odnesuvanje bez baranje na sovet od strucni lica, licno sitno profiterstvo ...e edna od pricinite i vtorata, uste pogolema e
- voeniot konflikt za osvojuvanje na teritorii koj go pocnavte pred tri godini i koj se uste go vodite no sega bez barut. Koj ke investira ako nema politicka stabilnost? Pred nekolku meseci bev vo drustvo (rucek po zavrseniot seminar) so ekperti od dve drzavi od EU vo edne evropski grad. Neznaejki od kade sum, moite sosedi na masata pocnaa razgovor za i okolu prosiruvanjeto na EU. Edniot imase odeno vo Bugarija i gi kazuvase impresiite od Sofija, a drugiot go dopolni negoviot govor so konstatacijata deka mozebi del od zemjite koi sega vleguvaat i koi za tri godini ke vlezat vo EU, i ne gi zadovoluvaat kriteriumite, ama sepak se miroljubivi i civilizirani narodi i red e da bidat del od Evropa. Znaci aludirase deka vo EU nema mesto za onie koi se "necivilizirani" odnosno so puski i vo planina gi branat svoite politicki stavovi. Koi se tie drzavi i narodi?

Imam edna principielna zabeleska vo odnos na prezentiranje na socio-ekonomskite vrski pomedju ludjeto vo kicevski. Imeno, i pokraj konstatacijata na avtorite za, najednostavo kazano, "poveke pari" na raspolaganje kaj Albancite (od emigracijata), ne napravile paralela so odnosot na drzavata sprema niv (koj e potenciran) so nivniot graganski dolg; odnosno danocnite obvrski i taksi. Zosto se uste nikoj vo ovaa drzava ne izlegol i da kaze, Gospoda, vo drzavniot budjet etnickata zaednica od .... participira so .... procenti? Tesko bilo da se dojde do podatoci, zatoa sto nemoze da se vleze vo poedini sela? Ne veruvam vo ova.
>
>I na kraj si go prasal
>li dedoti sto stana so
>pola milion "turci" od Makedonija
>iseleni od 1950 do 1975
>pa duri i do 1980.

Ne, dedo mi ne se mesase i ne "bistrese" politika kako tebe i mene. Drugi mi kazaa deka togasnite drzavnici napravile najgolema greska (dali bila ili ne pod diktat na federalnite celnici??). Imeno, isseluvajki gi Turcite, dozvolile da se naselat Albanci od Albanija. Da se pokaze kolku togasniot rezim na Hodza ne cini. Mehanicki priliv koj rezultira so ona sto denes nie so tebe go diskutirame.

Ako
>sme kaj istrazivanjata za gluvcite
>sto ti gi zemas za
>primer ke te prasam: Sto
>bese taa najezda od Istocna
>Makedonija kon Skopje posle 1963
>godina.... se delea stanovi,baraki zemja,placevi
>vrabotuvanja i prosto se isprazani
>Istocna Makedonija.

Da, toa bese era na zasilena industrijalizacija na togasnata federacija i so samoto toa se vrsi koncentracija na naselenieto vo prostorot. Fenomenot na urbanizacija i na "gravitaciono" vlijanie na golemite gradovi ne e karakteristicen samo za Makedonija, tuku e opsta specifika na urbaniot zivot. Toa sto ti go narekuvas "najezda od Istocna Makedonija" e edinstveno baranje na podobri uslovi za zivot.
Sostojbata sto e opisana vo pogornata studija e mozebi i podramaticna vo Istocna Makedonija. Steta sto nekoj "moderen borec za covekovi prava" ne e roden tamu, pa da pravat studija i za tie regioni.

Pozdrav
Stoper

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:42 PM (GMT)
33. "RE: istrazuvanja"
Drzavata ne im ponudi nisto na okolu 300 iljadi albanci od Makedonija i gi prinudi da baraat leb nadvor od zemjava a ti sakas i da ti placat danok.Znaes sto e danok ili treba da ti objasnam.

Za doseluvanjeto na albanci vo Makedonija ke ti kazam sto se slucilo posto dedoti ne znae,ne vidol,i ne cul nisto. Groto na "turcite" bea albanci koj spored spogodbata(YU -TR)za iseluvanje na muslimansko naselenie vo Turcija se deportiraa za Anadolija.Imase mnogu i od Kosovo koj "za turski papiri" cekaa vo Skopje so meseci i godini da gi dobijat.Najgolemiot del se iselija a mal del ostanaa vo Makedonija(kosovari)i toa vo Skopje,Kumanovo i mal del vo Tetovo no ne vise od 5 iljadi.Tie ostanaa zosto cekajki turski papiri padna Rankovic a vo medjuvreme nekoi i se vratija vo Kosovo.(toa mozes da go proveris vo vaseto MVR koga sakas)Momentalno so kosovsko poteklo nema vise od 30 iljadi dusi vo Makedonija.

Od Albanija nikoj ne dojde tuka.Albanija bese hermeticki zatvorena od Enver Hodza.

Da ostanaa "turcite" vo Makedonija kojznae kako ke bese propocijata.Da ti kazam?

Na Makedonija i treba vistinata.Vistinata za ovaa vreme i vistinata za 2001.Dvata naroda treba da ja cujat vistinata za da mozat da ziveat po spokojno.Se dodeka taa se krije razni skopljanci ke barat so tezi na ucka ordi,teritori,mobiljki fazoni.

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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 05:27 PM (GMT)
35. "RE: istrazuvanja"
>Drzavata ne im ponudi nisto na
>okolu 300 iljadi albanci od
>Makedonija i gi prinudi da
>baraat leb nadvor od zemjava
>a ti sakas i da
>ti placat danok.Znaes sto e
>danok ili treba da ti
>objasnam.

Vizar,
Dali so ova sto mi go pisuvas gi branis "pravata" na tie sto otisle vo emigracija ili tie sto ostanale vo Makedonija? Padja vo oci i toa sto treses brojki od rakav (300.000 Albanci zaminale od Makedonija? Pa so onie sto Ranko gi pratil vo Turcija i so onie koi sto dojdoa od Kosovo i Albanija i so Vas starosedelcite, ispadja, po tvoe, deka ste nad eden milion samo od Makedonija?!!! Da ne preteruvas?). Ne zaboravaj deka makedonskata emigracijata e isto mnogubrojna (ne mozam da tresnam bilo koja brojka). Dali i niv Makedonija gi prinudi da baraat leb nastrana i dali i oni (vklucitelno i nivnite rodnini vo Makedonija) ne treba da plakaat danok, struja, voda...? Kako mislis da se vrabotat vo drzavnite strukturi pripadnicite od tvojata etnicka zaednica? Kako ke se finansiraat?


>Za doseluvanjeto na albanci vo Makedonija
>ke ti kazam sto
>se slucilo posto dedoti ne
>znae,ne vidol,i ne cul nisto.
>Groto na "turcite" bea albanci
>koj spored spogodbata(YU -TR)za iseluvanje
>na muslimansko naselenie vo Turcija
>se deportiraa za Anadolija....

i t.n.

>Od Albanija nikoj ne dojde tuka.Albanija
>bese hermeticki zatvorena od Enver
>Hodza.
>
>Da ostanaa "turcite" vo Makedonija kojznae
>kako ke bese propocijata.Da ti
>kazam?

Da kazi mi. Ti imas brojki, dobri proceni, se boris za prava i vo isto vreme za sozivot, se trudis da ima prosperitet za Makedonija, zatoa sto mnogu ti "lezi" na srce.

>Na Makedonija i treba vistinata.Vistinata za
>ovaa vreme i vistinata za
>2001.Dvata naroda treba da ja
>cujat vistinata za da mozat
>da ziveat po spokojno.

TOCNO. Na Makedoncite treba da im ja kazete vistinata za motivite koi ve vodea vo vojna. Polesno ke bide da ve sfatime, ako otvorite karti.


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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 05:34 PM (GMT)
37. "objasnuvanje"
i toa malo.Da odime po red ke dojdeme do 2001.Neka se oformi mesovita makedonsko-albanska komisija na istoricari i neka se otvorat starite arhivi i neka ednas za sekogas se napise ovaa istorija pa makar bila ne tolku popularna.Mora da ja spoznaeme i vie i nie vaka ke imame dve vistini i dva pata.
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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 01:24 PM (GMT)
22. "RE: Posleden pat"
LAST EDITED ON 20-Feb-04 AT 01:37 PM (GMT)

Stoper, te pochituvam i ti se voshituvam za se shto mu napisha na "komandantot", apsolutno si vo pravo i sosema argumentirano i konzistentno go zafati mozebi eden od klucnite momenti (pokraj albanskata mafija i kriminalot, gordosta nivna) za destabilizacijata na Makedonija ..... Ona so homoseksualnosta kaj gluvcite e neshto shto ce nasmee mnogumina anti-ucki (pazi rekov anti-ucki ne antialbanci)

Dali ne e ocigleden dokaz za moite tvrdenja nacinot kako "komandant" visar gi zaobikoli 4-5 prashanja shto mu gi postavi (posle krajno skandaloznite i kontradiktorni teorii od "UCK teorijata za vodenje na specijalna vojna" ) i prodolzi da provocira i teoretizira za sozivotot i nepoznavanjeto na DVATA NARODI ?!!! koristejci obilni kolicestva od "teorijata na relativitetot i hipokrizijata" ?!

Jas najiskreno ne sakam i odbivam da razgovaram so nekogo koj ne zasluzuva tolkava pocit i kurtoazija kako shto ti toa go pravish. Samo ce te zamolam da izdvoish 5 minuti i da procitash postot "po milioniti pat" koj e upaten do tebe i baram najiskren komentar (ne go ocenuvaj stilot, toa e druga tema za diskusija za shto mislam deka nema da se slozime. Se raboti za karakter i licno moe gledanje na neshtata)

Za odbrana na moite stavovi ce ti dadam nasoka deka poagjam od najednostavnata implikacija deka nekoj shto gi negira OCIGLEDNITE RABOTI vo ovaa krvava nasha prikazna ne moze da zboruva za vozvisheni i humani celi. Ako saksh da cuesh shto se' toj i tie negiraat toa ce go napravam vo nekoja naredna poraka.

P.S. maloumnikot izednacuva

1. bunt protiv nacisticka germanija i turskata imperija (nasocena isklucivo kon OKUPATOROT) so teroristicki i fashizoidni proekti na maloumnici od tugja tertorija

2. MEHANICKI PRILIV OD TUGJA TERITORIJA so drzavna politika za razvoj stopanstvoto i urbanite sredini koja se slucila pred 3-40 godini

i se to ova logicno implicitra deka toj bara kontinuitet na nekoja ILirida , deka Kosovo-SRBIJA i POLOVINA MAKEDONIJA se edna teritorija i drzava, deka UCK e edna "armija" koja dejstvuva na celata teritorija na golema shiptarija i deka ima legitimitet i moralno pravo da pravi shto saka i da se sluzi so site sredstva protiv onie koi se na "nivni tertorii" , deka duri i moznite i zal realnite nepravdi napraveni pred 4-50 godini vo Jugoslavija se dobro opraduvanje za fashizam, terorizam i genocid i pravo da kazuva kako dedo mu mocal na livada pokraj Skopje i zakacil crni orli pa od tuka toa e golemoshiptarsko ......

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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 03:18 PM (GMT)
27. "RE: Posleden pat"
Zdravo Pragmaticar
Pred da prodiskutiram so tebe, sakam da te zamolam da go podobris malku recnikot i so Visar i so profesorot od Bitola oti nemas nikakva korist od "ostar" recnik. Ako prifatis, ke bide podobro za site. Ke gi sledime stavovite i diskusiite so respektivna intelektualna pocit.

>..... Ona so homoseksualnosta
>kaj gluvcite e neshto shto
>ce nasmee mnogumina anti-ucki
>(pazi rekov anti-ucki ne antialbanci)

Dobro, mozebi toa moze da se stavi vo vrska so postovite na Skopjanec, no namerata bese da predocam deka demografskite fenomeni vlijaat mnogu na ekonomskitte, socijalnite, pa i na cisto bioloskite pojavi.

>Dali ne e ocigleden dokaz za
>moite tvrdenja nacinot kako "komandant"
>visar gi zaobikoli 4-5 prashanja
>shto mu gi postavi (posle
>krajno skandaloznite i kontradiktorni teorii
>od "UCK teorijata za vodenje
>na specijalna vojna" ) i
>prodolzi da provocira i teoretizira
>za sozivotot i nepoznavanjeto na
>DVATA NARODI ?!!! koristejci obilni
>kolicestva od "teorijata na relativitetot
>i hipokrizijata" ?!

Jas javno kazav deka ne se slozuvam so Vizar vo vrska so negovata teorija za opravdanosta na voeniot konflikt (demek nemozelo veke da se trpi nepravda) i negovoto fokusiranje edino na problemite na negovata etnicka zaednica. Spored negovoto glediste, ispaga deka kriterium za onepravdanost vo Makedonija e etnickata pripadnost. Gresi, ovde mnogu gresi i ako razmisli podetalno, ke svati deka ne e vo pravo. Onepravdanost i neednakvost postoi vo sekoe opstestvo i toa ne edinstveno na verska, rasna ili nacionalna osnova.

>Jas najiskreno ne sakam i odbivam
>da razgovaram so nekogo koj
>ne zasluzuva tolkava pocit i
>kurtoazija kako shto ti toa
>go pravish. Samo ce te
>zamolam da izdvoish 5 minuti
>i da procitash postot "po
>milioniti pat" koj e upaten
>do tebe i baram najiskren
>komentar (ne go ocenuvaj
>stilot, toa e druga tema
>za diskusija za shto mislam
>deka nema da se slozime.
>Se raboti za karakter i
>licno moe gledanje na neshtata)

Dobro, za stilot te zamoliv uste vo pocetokot na postot da (ako mozes) go podobris. Za ostanatoto kazav pred malku. Ona sto se slozuvam so Vizar e deka vo Makedonija ne se dvizat rabotite na dobro. Vsusnost i pokraj razlicniot diopter, ova go uocuvame i dvajcata.

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:03 PM (GMT)
29. "!"
LAST EDITED ON 20-Feb-04 AT 04:08 PM (GMT)

>Ona
>sto se slozuvam so Vizar
>e deka vo Makedonija ne
>se dvizat rabotite na dobro.
>Vsusnost i pokraj razlicniot diopter,
>ova go uocuvame i dvajcata.
>

Ne gledam shto ima da se slozish so nego, toa e i premnogu ocigledno Paradoksalno e deka vsuhsnost loshata nasha situacija e rezultat na "delata i postojanite napori" na negovite puleni od voenite i politicki krila na uck vo Makedonija. Paradoksalno e deka voopshto eden "komandant" (oksimoron na albanskoto ekstremno malcinstvo so shto se potencira militantnata i primitivna psihologija na gledanje na neshtata koga stanuva zbor za najekstremnite od najesktremnite "borci za prava") voopshto se prikazuva kako "zagrizen" makedonski albanec a od druga strana site poraki i superteorii mu se antimakedonski , antidrzavnii i velicenje na teroristickata uck !!!

Povtoruvam ushte ednash (so popraven recnik) :

Za odbrana na moite stavovi ce ti dadam nasoka deka poagjam od najednostavnata implikacija deka nekoj shto gi negira OCIGLEDNITE RABOTI vo ovaa krvava nasha prikazna ne moze da zboruva za vozvisheni i humani celi. Ako saksh da cuesh shto se' toj i tie negiraat toa ce go napravam vo nekoja naredna poraka.

Visar izednacuva :

1. bunt protiv nacisticka germanija i turskata imperija (nasocena isklucivo kon OKUPATOROT) so teroristicki i fashizoidni proekti na teroristicka organizacija od tugja teritorija

2. MEHANICKI PRILIV OD TUGJA TERITORIJA so drzavna politika za razvoj na stopanstvoto i urbanite sredini koja se slucila pred 3-40 godini

----- moe gledanje e deka toa e strategija od specijalnata vojna na uck protiv site shto se na "nivni teritorii" kade treba da se isprovocira, navredi (najcesto odat na navredi na nacionalana osnova bidejci znaat deka sem ranlivi ), zamena na teoriite, da se falsifikuva vistinata i istorijata .......


i se to ova logicno implicira deka toj bara kontinuitet na nekoja ILirida , deka Kosovo-SRBIJA i POLOVINA MAKEDONIJA se edna teritorija i drzava, deka UCK e edna "armija" koja dejstvuva na celata teritorija na "nivanata golema" i deka ima legitimitet i moralno pravo da pravi shto saka i da se sluzi so site sredstva protiv onie koi se na "nivni tertorii" , deka duri i moznite i zal realnite nepravdi napraveni pred 4-50 godini vo Jugoslavija se dobro opraduvanje za fashizam, terorizam i genocid i dopolinitelno kazuva kako dedo mu na livada pokraj Skopje i zakacil crni orli pa od tuka sledi deka toa e na "nivnata golema" ......

P.S. cekaj sega samo da pocne da ti kazuva za vikendicite, odmorite , kolite, na slavomakedoncite . Operiran e od sekakov prigovor na sovest toj slobodno raskazuva kako frustraciite od nekoj prethoden sistem i poradi navodna obespravenost vo ovoj sistem davaat celosno pravo na ekstremisti i dileri na droga da vrshat etnicko cistenje i genocid ...... necam da pomislam ama seriozno provejuva vo negovite recenici "i malku e toa shto vi go napravivme" . Zboruva i za nekakvi "amnezii" a zaborava deka amnestija e privilegija i doblest na posilniot i pomudriot da mu prosti i dade vtora shansa na poslabiot i greshniot. Koj e amnestiraniot i za shto se borat negovite puleni , znaeme site, znaesh i ti i toj. Podli se ovie igri, gadni se.


I ushte neshto, te molam daj mi mal spisok na "nesoodvetni" i "ostri" zborovi vo komunikacijata so visar i ostanatite "komandanti" i po moznost i objasnuvanje zoshto.

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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:50 PM (GMT)
34. "RE: !"
>
> ----- moe gledanje e deka
>toa e strategija od specijalnata
>vojna na uck protiv site
>shto se na "nivni teritorii"
>kade treba da se isprovocira,
> navredi (najcesto odat na
>navredi na nacionalana osnova bidejci
>znaat deka sem ranlivi ),
>zamena na teoriite, da se
>falsifikuva vistinata i istorijata .......
>
>
>
>i se to ova logicno implicira
>deka toj bara kontinuitet na
>nekoja ILirida , deka Kosovo-SRBIJA
>i POLOVINA MAKEDONIJA se edna
>teritorija i drzava, deka UCK
>e edna "armija" koja dejstvuva
>na celata teritorija na "nivanata
>golema" i deka ima legitimitet
>i moralno pravo da pravi
>shto saka i da se
>sluzi so site sredstva protiv
>onie koi se na "nivni
>tertorii" , deka duri i
>moznite i zal realnite nepravdi
>napraveni pred 4-50 godini vo
>Jugoslavija se dobro opraduvanje za
>fashizam, terorizam i genocid i
>dopolinitelno kazuva kako dedo mu
>na livada pokraj Skopje i
>zakacil crni orli pa od
>tuka sledi deka toa e
>na "nivnata golema" ......

Se slozuvam so tebe. Ova e nivnata bazicna platforma, za koja go menuvaat samo recnikot vo zavisnost od toa kako zapadnite drzavi ke im kazat. Zadoeni se so taa idea koja cesto preminuva vo cist nacio-sovinozam. Najstrasno e toa sto isti raboti mozes da slusnes od Vizar, od Ali, od Djaferi, ... nema razlika vo krajnata cel.


>
>I ushte neshto, te molam daj
>mi mal spisok na "nesoodvetni"
>i "ostri" zborovi vo komunikacijata
>so visar i ostanatite "komandanti"
>i po moznost i objasnuvanje
>zoshto.

Ke pomineme od politicki na lingvisticki i stilisticki temi, koi vsusnost se rabota na vkusovi; Kako sto veli edna francuska pogovorka: "vkusovite i boite ne se diskutiraat".

Pozdrav
Stoper

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Visar Click to EMail VisarClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 05:29 PM (GMT)
36. "Da rezimiram"
Stoper kolku i da se trudis da zvucis demokrat pak se vracas vo starata koza.Znam tesno ti e i ne mozes poinaku. Mnogu jasno preku slikoviti primeri vi ja pribliziv realnosta.Dovolno e, bidejki znaete deka ja znaeme vistinata a taa ja znae i medjunarodniot faktor koj za celta na vistinata i istrazuvanja ima obaveno za da dojde do nejze. Makedonija ke postoi samo kako makedonsko-albanska nova tvorevina i toa vo near future.Drugite scenarija vi gi ostavam na vas.

tolku i prijatno.

do druga tema se citame

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stoper Click to EMail stoperClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 05:48 PM (GMT)
38. "RE: Da rezimiram"
>Stoper kolku i da se trudis
>da zvucis demokrat pak se
>vracas vo starata koza.Znam tesno
>ti e i ne mozes
>poinaku. Mnogu jasno preku slikoviti
>primeri vi ja pribliziv realnosta.Dovolno
>e, bidejki znaete deka ja
>znaeme vistinata a taa ja
>znae i medjunarodniot faktor koj
>za celta na vistinata i
>istrazuvanja ima obaveno za da
>dojde do nejze. Makedonija ke
>postoi samo kako makedonsko-albanska nova
>tvorevina i toa vo near
>future.Drugite scenarija vi gi ostavam
>na vas.
>
>tolku i prijatno.
>
>do druga tema se citame

"Dali treba da veruvame vo srekata? Da, kako inaku bi si gi objasnile uspesite na nasite neprijateli?"....

Do sleden pat, a najverojatno na ista tema.
Pozdrav
Stoper

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Karabdalica Click to EMail KarabdalicaClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 08:56 AM (GMT)
11. "Баталете го Прагматичар,продолжете Вие"

Интересен диалог...баталете го “пргматичар“ и продолжете Вие.

Ве читам

Се најдобро

Карабдалица

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 09:35 AM (GMT)
12. "RE: Баталете го Прагматичар,продолжете Вие"
marsh be ti isfrustrirano gjubrence edno
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Karabdalica Click to EMail KarabdalicaClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 11:33 AM (GMT)
15. "Браво !"

Така треба !

Карабдалица

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 11:44 AM (GMT)
16. "za "komandant" abdalkarica"
nepocituvan Abdal-karice

Nishto od seto toa shto go napisha nitu me navredi nitu me pogodi ti si moron i toa e vece jasno , ti si ulicar (so profesorska titula) , ti si perverznjakot koj bez nikakov argument ednostavno se rasfrla so karakterno-pogrdni zborovi i odbivash da gi odbarnish tvoite stavovi . ZBuljimi-kontrazbuljimi lagi, provokacija, ignoriranje (samo tvojot isfrustriran um znae shto ti znacat tie umstveni izleti vo prazno so Prilep , majmuni, voshki .... imash li zena ili devojka ?!!! ako nemash baraj brzo bidejci tie kutri UCENICI se tvoi zrtvi )

Затоа велам: назад на теренот! Се уште не е предоцна да се искористи постигната свест кај луѓето и да се доразоружа секој поединец, секоја група, секој мрачен, подмолен ум. Ако веќе не е можно со истото мото, постојат нови од типот оружје за развој, оружје за пари итн. Назад на теренот од името на нашата европска иднина и од името на сите оние што непосредно или посредно го сетиле мирисот на насилната смрт за да се спречи и најмалата можност од нови трауми и нови умирања. А седумнаесеттиот нелегален куршум музејски заглавен во мојата кола нека опоменува и нека ја нагласува бесмисленоста на се уште постојниот стремеж за продолжување на крвавиот, национал-романтичарски сон налудничаво зачнат во разбојничката психа на некои амнестирани идиоти или во болните глави на некои т.н. интелектуалци кои лаконски знаат дури јавно да ги наречат крвавите, малоумни пирови во почетокот од третиот милениум модерни револуции за човекови права!


citajci gi tvoite poraki nezaobikoliv e vpecatokot deka si isfrustriran covecki primerok koj i samiot ne znae shto pravi na forumot. Od edna strana vo nekoi tvoi poraki moze da se procita stav deka go osuduvash nasilstvoto, terorizmot i ostanatite neprimerni , primitivni i dekadentni covecki povedenija . SO drugi zborovi osuda na nasilstvo, vojni, netolerancija, ksenofobija, shovinizam, terorizam, genocid , nacionalizam, ekstremizam ..... Od druga strana se pretstavuvash kako profesor (covek so solidno obrazovanie ) i kako intektualec i kontradiktorniot moment e deka vo moite i porakite na Skopljanac i ostanati anti-uck nastroeni kauri ti gi prepoznavash site tie neprimerni povedenija ?!!!!! Decki !!!! citash li ubavo , ti treba li preveduvac , pa i na duhovno slep i celosno neobrazovan bi mu bilo jasno deka "nie" sme antiteroristi, antinacionalisti, antiekstremisti, antigolemoshiptari, antiuck, antiprimitivci, antimiloshevicisti, antiarkanisti, anttitugjmanisti, antiizetbegovicisti ....

Da bev osamen vo ovie stavovi ce razmislev dali mozebi imam greshki vo stilot i tehnikata na izrazuvanje pa eventualno da prenesuvam pogreshni poraki , no sam ne sum i znam za shto zboruvam , ti preporacuvam da koristish naocari so druga dioptrija na celosna objektivnost i iskrenost , bez filtrite zalieni od tvoite frustracii i navivacki pogledi na "borbata za prava" od strana na uck narodot.

P.S. na onaa moja poraka mi odgovori so nekakva kratka recenica "ne mozam da ti se nacudam ...." , ako ti e strategija da me isprovocirash , se lazesh Za takvi kako tebe i poloshi imam mnogu posilni odbranbeni mehanizmi A subjektivno gledano ti napishav koncizno i mnogu jasno no ti imashe da odgovorish samo so " ne mozam da ti se iznacudam ..... " , preispitaj se dobro abdal-karice i tvoite ucenici neka se preispitaat koj im e profesor i na koi vrednosti gi poducuvash. Mene mnogu posoodvetno mi deluvash za uck "fakultetot" na Sulejmani kade glaven akcent se dava na "vrednosti" koi ne se vo sklad so evropskite vizii, znaesh ti ubavo za shto ti zboruvame site "nie".

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Karabdalica Click to EMail KarabdalicaClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 11:54 AM (GMT)
17. "Браво,браво !"

Само така. Пофалбите сами ќе си дојдат !

Карабдалица

П.С. кај нас се се наградува, аферим !

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Arber Click to EMail ArberClick to view user profileClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:04 PM (GMT)
30. "RE: i pak za Abdal-karica"
evo sega namesto pragmatichar koi zboruva samo gluposti da pisuvase nekoj albanec site ce vikavte evo kakvi se albancite bez kultura,divi i takanatamu... ama jas pak ce recam ima dobri i losi makedonci kako sto ima i kaj albancite i kaj site drugi narodi. gi pozdravuvam site forumgii
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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 20-Feb-04, 04:16 PM (GMT)
32. "za Arber"
neobjektiven si i nerealen si Arber, se slagam deka ima loshi makedonci i loshi albanci (i iskreno ne mi se veruva deka od albanec prochitav deka ima loshi albanci) a loshite od dobrite se ralikuvaat po izvakanita dusha, misli i storeni nedela. Ako imam neshto protiv tebe (ili Abdal-karica) najmalku pricina e deka si albanec !!!!
Razmisli malku (znaesh dobro protiv kogo i protiv shto sum jas).

Pozdrav, Pragmatichar

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Silvana Click to EMail SilvanaClick to check IP address of the poster 23-Feb-04, 03:02 PM (GMT)
39. "RE: Баталете го Прагматичар,продолжете Вие"
>marsh be ti isfrustrirano gjubrence edno
>

----- Da se delea nagradi za najnisko nivo na komunikacija ti ke go dobiese prvoto mesto. Nacinot na koj im se obrakas na drugite e od edna strana podliznuvacki i klanjacki( kon Skopjanec kako avtoritet koj go obozavas) a od druga strana krajno netoleranten i bezobrazen so site koi ne se soglasuvaat so toa sto toj go kazuva. Preispitaj se malku. Od tvoite postovi zraci nesigurnost i kompleks na poniska vrednost.

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Skopjanec Click to EMail SkopjanecClick to check IP address of the poster 24-Feb-04, 03:07 AM (GMT)
40. "Pragmaticar samo napred!"
LAST EDITED ON 24-Feb-04 AT 03:24 AM (GMT)

Voopsto da ne te tangiraat izjavite na koekakvi isfrustrirani feministki so pretenzii da bidat psihoanaliticar(k)i, prikrieni gimnaziski "profesori" i provokatori, eticki relativisti i intelektualno inferiorni blebetala od sekakov vid koi za zal se prisutni ne samo vo Makedonija, na makdeonija.com, tuku i vo drugi dimenzii.

Koj saka moze da bide prosek i mediokritet. Ti kazuvas edna vistina na avtenticen nacin i jas toa go pocituvam. Zatoa samo napred, vistinata neka ti e celta: Makedonija e napadnata i efektivno podelena od edna siptarska teroristicka banda i sesrdno podrzana od glavnicta na albanskiot narod, a makedonskite politicari se aktivni ucesnici vo raznebituvanjeto na drzavata.

Ako ne i se bendisuva na doticnata, namesto da deli nagradi nepovikana moze da ti odgovori so argumenti, da go smeni forumot ili da go iskluci kompjuterot.

Da sum na tvoe mesto bi podzakocil malku, zosto so brojot na postovite mu odis na volej na komandanti "profesori".

Pozdravi.


P.S. Patem mene mozes no ne moras da me "obozavas" kako sto bi rekla doticnata. Mislam deka e toa toa sto i preci.

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Skopjanec Click to EMail SkopjanecClick to check IP address of the poster 24-Feb-04, 03:41 AM (GMT)
41. "Samo da do-posocam..."
...za sto se raboti:

Лидерот на ДПА препорачува отворање на дилемата во врска со формирањето на македонската држава ако таа не го признае Косово.

Арбен Џафери тврди дека Македонците од Голо Брдо се измислица на бившиот македонски претседател Киро Глигоров и на македонските тајни служби. Истовремено, тој препорачува дека најадекватен одговор на македонската определба за непризнавање на независноста на Косово е отворање на дилемата во врска со формирањето на македонската држава.

"Од каде извира таа енергија, таа подготвеност за формирање на една "македонска кауза" во Голо Брдо во Албанија?", прашува Џафери во текстот објавен во албанскиот весник "Шекули", за потоа да констатира дека одговорот не треба да се бара ниту во историјата ниту во традицијата, "туку во политичките проекти на мошне старите лидери или на проектите на македонските тајни служби кои се стремат да го релативизираат албанското прашање на просторите на поранешна Југославија".

Според него, македонската кауза во Албанија се отворала како антиалбански предизвик во рамките на глигоровистичката стратегија која презела врз себе да реализира неколку сегменти на тајните служби и на кариеристичкото слепило на неколку поединци во Албанија, кои преку своите друштва се стремеле да отворат големи дилеми. "Меѓутоа, тие ќе успеат да сфатат дека импровизираат само бура во една чаша вода... делириумот за создавање етничка кауза во Албанија не е само политичка реторика, но и геостратегиска политика", ќе констатира Џафери.

Истовремено, тој објаснува дека постоел план од времето на поранешна Југославија за формирање една тампон-зона која би ги поврзувала пределите населени со "муслиманите-словенофони" во Гора, Косово, на селата на "торбешите" околу Дебар и оние во Голо Брдо, Албанија. Лидерот на ДПА посочува дека актуелната македонска Влада остварувала разговори за отворање пат кој би го поврзал Голо Брдо со селата на "торбешите" околу Дебар.

Џафери признава дека во еден дел од територијата на Албанија постоела една група што зборувала "еден пресушен дијалект" од словенскиот јазик, која припаѓала на муслиманската вероисповед, но, според него, на оваа група сў уште не и бил јасен нејзиниот национален идентитет, дури таа била многу поназад од другите што денес се признавале под името помаци, торбеши и босанци. Според него, тие едноставно се идентификувале со топонимот на Голо Брдо и дури често пати се декларирале како Бугари.

На лидерот на ДПА повод за вакви жолчни напади врз Македонците во Албанија и врз македонскиот национален идентитет му дал текстот на д-р Кимет Фетаху, Македонец од Голо Брдо, познат активист за правата на Македонците во Албанија, објавен во истиот весник. Џафери не кажува што, всушност, пишува Фетаху. Го претставува како претставник или претседател на едно од друштвата на, според него, "таканаречената Унија на Македонците во Албанија". Фетаху за него е човек "на едно друштво кое според сите веројатности собира граѓани од Албанија кои сметаат дека им се зголемува угледот ако се идентификува со таа политичка измислица - Македонци муслимани, што ниту во самата Македонија не фати место". Лидерот на ДПА вели дека текстот на Фетаху бил интересен само ако се гледал како илустративен дел од синдромот создаден од глигоривистичката доктрина што во суштина, според него, била вештачка и во самиот македонски народ внесувала збрка, како со себеси, така и со другите народи на Балканот. "Овој напис вреди да се анализира само за да се сфати апсурдот на македонизмот, барем перципиран со очилата на доктрината на Глигоров", заклучува тој.

Лидерот на ДПА се враќа и во минатото, тврдејќи дека примарната идеја на ВМРО била да се формира една државна формација на географскиот простор што би се признавала со името Македонија и во која Голо Брдо во Албанија било надвор од полето на нејзиното политичко перципирање. "Оваа Македонија, според политичката платформа на ВМРО, требаше да биде балканска Швајцарија каде што во целосна еднаквост би живееле Бугарите, Албанците, Грците, Турците, Власите и другите. Така, дел од бугарската елита се стремеше преку новиот концепт на држава како Швајцарија повторно да ја врати бугарската доминантна позиција врз една стратегиска територија што ја имаше загубено благодарение на меѓународната арбитража", пишува Џафери, застапувајќи ги познатите тези на Ванчо Михајлов за Македонија без Македонци.

На крајот лидерот на ДПА заклучува: "Претенциозните трансцедетални концепти на Глигоров за македонизмот создаваат само големи историски, политички религиозни збрки и друго, не само во Македонија, но и околу Македонија. Со случајот на промовирањето на македонизмот во Голо Брдо, диригиран од Скопје, се отвора силна политичка дилема која се однесува на формирањето на Македонија како независна држава и влијанието на тоа врз стабилноста на државата и констелациите околу неа". Џафери смета дека најадекватен одговор на, според глигоровистичката и воопшто македонската определба за непризнавање на независноста на Косово, е отворањето на дилемата во врска со формирањето на македонската држава, зашто "тоа и како концепт и како агентурска дејност" ги дестабилизирало албанските простори и регионот.

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Silvana Click to EMail SilvanaClick to check IP address of the poster 24-Feb-04, 10:31 AM (GMT)
42. "RE: Pragmaticar samo napred!"

Bogami mu konkuriras za nagradata na obozavatelot tvoj


>P.S. Patem mene mozes no ne
>moras da me "obozavas" kako
>sto bi rekla doticnata. Mislam
>deka e toa toa sto
>i preci.

Hehe, ne mi preci voopsto. Vie mozete da si se klanjate eden na drug kolku sakate, da si se guskate i ligavite kolku sakate. Jas se raduvam za vas. Si ja najdovte polovinata sto vi nedostasuvase i sega perfektno se nadopolnuvate. Sekoj od vas ima ona sto go nema drugiot. Dvajcata zaedno pravite eden sovrsen s....

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pragmatichar Click to EMail pragmaticharClick to check IP address of the poster 25-Feb-04, 05:17 PM (GMT)
43. "Skopljanac samo napred !!"
Nema da gubam vreme i prostor na forumot na psihoanaliza na "lepoticata" kako taa toa go pravi moshne simptomaticno (ti aplaudiram za ubavo sroceniot intelektualen i psihicki profil na goreposocenata i nejzinite kolaboratori ..... isfrustrirani feministki so pretenzii da bidat psihoanaliticar(k)i, prikrieni gimnaziski "profesori" i provokatori, eticki relativisti i intelektualno inferiorni blebetala od sekakov vid .....) , nejzin problem. No ce ukazam na edna moshne voocliva karakteristika na forum grupacijata ne-znam-shto-pravam-i-zoshto-mi-beshe-takvo-detstvoto. Ubeden sum deka se raboti za mediokriteti so nerealizirani zivotni aspiracii koi pod prevezot na nekakava intelektualnost koristat shansa da bidat toa shto ne se

Krajno neinventivni i so ocaen smisiol za humor uspeaa mene i tebe Skopljanac "da ne spojat" (tuka znam koi od "komanandant" forumdziite se obliznuvaat) a kako shto zabeleza nieden od ovie "makedonci golemi" i "socijaldemokrati nevideni" ne uspeavat da se snajdat so onoj neprijaten moment narecen vistina za crnata i tazna makedonska prikazna. Tazno e deka ima tuka makedonci koi uspevaat za se' da se fatat kako pijani za bandera ama ne za ona sushtinskoto, imame albanci koi ni raskazuvaat za obespravenost i zelba za ednakvost i pristoen zivot a aplaudiraat i navivaat za "dobar fashizam" , imame kvazi-profesori koi i samite ne znaat shto se i po ubeduvaanje i po misla ....

Najiskreno i najsredecno te pozdravuvam za "podrshkata" i milo mi e deka ima ushte po nekoj od nas kaurite koj ne ja promashil poentatata i ne se srami da se sooci so vistinata , makar i da e neprijatna za necii "makedonski interesi". Nieden od onie gorespomenatite ne razbiraat deka zboruvame za vistinata a nivnite provokacii gi dozivuvam kako ocaen obid da se parira so "kontrargumenti" i seto toa motivirano od se' samo ne od razumni i humani motivi. Tazna e nashata prikazna makedonska , tolku mnogu pravci i nasoki , site tolku promasheni zaedno site nashi zivoti ..... a "komandantite" osvojuvaat i osvojuvaat "prava" , peda po peda ..... no od vistinata ne se bega , surova e i ne znae za pardon


P.S Ona so obozavanjeto od moja strana mora da ti godi priznaj, ne bidi skromen

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Urednikot Click to EMail UrednikotClick to check IP address of the poster 25-Feb-04, 11:16 PM (GMT)
44. "RE: Silvana samo napred!"
"Zaspanata ubavica" se razbudi.
Mnogu me izraduvase sto se javi. Takvi psihoanaliticari mnogu ni trebaat vo klinikata. Imame potreba od medicinski kadar, a poarna sestra od tebe ne veruvam deka ke najdeme. Ako se pokazes postrucna moze i do doktor da doteras. Te molam javi se vednas vo redakcijata za detalite.

P.S Mnogu dobro ni trgna rabotata. Ako uspeeme i Kostana da ja pridobieme ke napravime mnogu dobar tim.
Mnogu srdecni i topli pozdravi od Urednikot

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